Help...which bike?

[Jason]

3 years of 40 mile round trips to work (on and off) on my Bianchi and I'm a bit knackered and getting lazy(ish). Need recommendations for an electric bike which is up to a 20 mile hilly trip (I can recharge at work). I like the look of the ezee torq...has anyone used it for this type of work? The shaft drive diavelo looks the business but isn't in production yet..anyone know when? Any advice appreciated.

Jason

 

[flecc]

A 20 mile one way trip is very marginal for the Torq. Few actually get this sort of range and in hilly country, many like me get about 15 miles. I do however go out with two batteries sometimes, so that can make it viable, and the weight of a second battery in a pannier isn't noticeable.

The other thing that concerns me is the hilly country you mention. The Torq's motor is very high geared, and the derailleur high geared to match. The manufacturer says ok for up to 1 in 10 (10%) and I'd agree with that, but anything steeper is very tough going. I live up a short 1 in 8 (12%) and it's very hard work. No use changing the derailleur gearing since that just divides the available power, cyclist and motor no longer working together.

So that depends on your territory. If you have rolling main road hills of up to 1 in 12 (8%), the Torq will fly up them at very good speeds, but any very steep ones it's a very different story. Obviously a trial on a Torq is best before you choose, so whereabouts are you, you may find 50cycles can organise a trial ride for you in hilly territory.

The only other bikes I know that can definitely consistently do an over 20 mile journey are slow low performance jobs which would take an age to do the trip, and might struggle with the hills anyway.

 

[Nick]

Hi Jason

One option would be to fit a Bionx kit to your existing bike but, as Flecc has said with the Torq, 20 miles would be at the limit I think as hills and headwinds use up a lot of power. I can get over 20 miles out of my Bionx but have to run at assistance level 1 or 2 to do so, rather than the 4 that I like, but maybe that wouldn't be such a struggle for you as you are cycling a fair distance already. Spare batteries are an option but the lithium ions for my Bionx are horrendously expensive, though nickel metal hydrides are available too.

It might be worth bearing in mind that although the Bionx is light and can be pedalled easily enough without assistance, the rear hub motor does make pedalling harder over a normal wheel.

People seem to rate the Powabyke well for its range but I don't know much about it.

 

[Jason]

Thanks Guys. I'm a bit disappointed about the news re the Torq. One of my main prerequisites was a need for a bike that doesn't look like a 1950s Raleigh shopper, which most of the electric bikes on the market seem to resemble (this has put me off Powabykes). The manufacturer's (Ezee Torq) specs seem a little different to the 'real life' scenarios you describe..I personally can't really imagine stopping to change batteries on the way to work!
I'm in Winchester so I'll try the distributor for a trial as you suggest..borrowing one for a few 40 mile round trips might be a bit outside their remit however (?!).
I wonder why there can't be a selection of battery sizes to suit individual need..perhaps I should patent the 'stackrack'...

Cheers

Jason

 

[flecc]

We're up against the current state of battery technology here Jason. A few years ago most electrics did around 10 miles range, now they tend to do just about 20, so there is progress, just not yet enough. The reason for my reserve is that battery capacity declines over time, and can go down by as much as 30% in a year in worst cases. So even if you could just about do 20 miles, that situation would not last for long.

Two batteries does work for some in this forum who commute around your distance, and the swap is quick and quite convenient. I can understand the manufacturers though, since they've struggled to get weight nearer to ordinary bike levels and won't be impressed with the idea of double size and weight batteries starting off the complaints about that again!

What some of them are choosing to do is go in the long range direction by using low motor powers, this suiting the very important Dutch market. Not much good in our hilly terrain though, but our market is too small in comparison to influence them.

 

[rsscott]

3 years of 40 mile round trips to work (on and off) on my Bianchi and I'm a bit knackered and getting lazy(ish). Need recommendations for an electric bike which is up to a 20 mile hilly trip (I can recharge at work). I like the look of the ezee torq...has anyone used it for this type of work? The shaft drive diavelo looks the business but isn't in production yet..anyone know when? Any advice appreciated.

Jason

Hi Jason,

as others have said, it depends very much on the gradients as to whether the Torq will suit or not. 20 miles can be achievable as I could often get that on my commute to work and back (10 miles each way) but that is in flat country (E.Anglia) and at full whack. The only true test is to try one out if you can.

As for the Diavelo, I think you would be better to look at the Schwinn as they are essentially the same bike but from an established manufacturer. I'm sure we'll see it on our shores sometime this year!

cheers
Russ.

 

[Jason]

Thanks for all the replies. The route is Winchester-Basingstoke which only has 1 or 2 big hills, but is a genuine 20 miles door to door and up and down all the way. I'm still tempted by the Torq, thanks 50cycles I'll be in contact asap (I'm away for a few days). A couple of other questions which perhaps I should post in another thread:
1.The legal speed limitation of ~15mph..if this is exceeded on an electric bike is there any penalty in performance (ie. a braking effect)? I would regularly be exceeding 25 mph on my standard bike on the downhill sections which allows me to do the 20 miles in about 1h 10mins (exhausted). I'm a little worried that my journey time could be longer!
2.Has anyone used the 'salary sacrifice' scheme to purchase a bike? This seems like a great idea and I suppose I'm exactly the sort of person Gordon Brown is targeting.

(50cycles: Any special deals on second batteries with the purchase of a new Torq??)

Jason

 

[flecc]

Hi Jason

My original answer was based on the Torq being derestricted as this is the way nearly everyone uses them, in particular because this reduces journey times. If your hills are acceptable for you to use the Torq, the derestricted journey time would be only a bit over the hour, and just possibly one hour if you really used the maximum speed down every hill. As you are obviously a quite fit cyclist already, the range would probably be between 17 and 20 miles.

Alternatively, if you used it in restricted mode, near the maximum of 15 mph assisted would be all you'd do much of the time on the flat, since the weight and tyre rolling resistance of the larger e-bike tyres mean trying to pedal it beyond that on your power alone isn't totally successful and can be more tiring than an ordinary bike. Therefore your journey time would be longer by a little, but should still be under 1 hour 15 minutes since you'd still be climbing hills and flying downhill at the same speeds as derestricted. Where you would gain restricted is in the range, since then you could quite probably do the 20 miles ok, and quite possibly more. Just one owner reported range 30 miles restricted and 15 miles derestricted, a bit extreme, but in all cases, restriction extends the range measurably, especially for a fit cyclist.

 

[aroncox]

I have a Torq and currently commute 10 miles each way and I suspect there's not all that much left in the battery at the end, but that's with 100% on, limited pedalling (on the way in) and full speed , with a couple of small hills. I am planning to commute 20 miles each way in the future, and think a second battery will suffice, as said earlier it is very easy to swap.

As for the salary scrifice, I did it, it was very simple and painless (a couple of forms), can include pretty much anything bike related, and I'm now paying it back on a monthly basis over 12 months. In theory my company now owns my bike, but I don't think they're going to take it when I leave.

Aron.

Thanks for all the replies. The route is Winchester-Basingstoke which only has 1 or 2 big hills, but is a genuine 20 miles door to door and up and down all the way. I'm still tempted by the Torq, thanks 50cycles I'll be in contact asap (I'm away for a few days). A couple of other questions which perhaps I should post in another thread:
1.The legal speed limitation of ~15mph..if this is exceeded on an electric bike is there any penalty in performance (ie. a braking effect)? I would regularly be exceeding 25 mph on my standard bike on the downhill sections which allows me to do the 20 miles in about 1h 10mins (exhausted). I'm a little worried that my journey time could be longer!
2.Has anyone used the 'salary sacrifice' scheme to purchase a bike? This seems like a great idea and I suppose I'm exactly the sort of person Gordon Brown is targeting.

(50cycles: Any special deals on second batteries with the purchase of a new Torq??)

Jason

 

[AlbertoC67]

To mount a Bionx

Hi Jason

One option would be to fit a Bionx kit to your existing bike but, as Flecc has said with the Torq, 20 miles would be at the limit I think as hills and headwinds use up a lot of power. I can get over 20 miles out of my Bionx but have to run at assistance level 1 or 2 to do so, rather than the 4 that I like, but maybe that wouldn't be such a struggle for you as you are cycling a fair distance already. Spare batteries are an option but the lithium ions for my Bionx are horrendously expensive, though nickel metal hydrides are available too.

It might be worth bearing in mind that although the Bionx is light and can be pedalled easily enough without assistance, the rear hub motor does make pedalling harder over a normal wheel.

People seem to rate the Powabyke well for its range but I don't know much about it.

Hi Nick,
I've just taken some measures on my existing bike to verify the possibility to mount a Bionx 250.
I don't understand what to do with the rear wheel: they give me the rear wheel with the hub motor, but I have to disassemble my freewheel to mount it on Bionx or just fit my rear gears on Bionx unit?
Bye

 

[flecc]

This is from a BionX site Alberto:

The BionX system can be installed on most bicycles by replacing the rear wheel with the BionX motor-wheel. The BionX system can be retrofitted on all bicycle models: road, mountain, tandem, folding, recumbent and recumben trikes counting up to 24 speeds.

Therefore, it seems you just fit your existing gears.

 

[Nick]

Alberto, you raise a good point which I should have mentioned: you remove your existing wheel (with its cassette/freewheel) and fit a freewheel to the Bionx rear wheel and then fit that to your bike. The kit doesn't come with a freewheel, so you need to get one as it will not work with a cassette.

The rear wheel, for what it's worth, is not quick release - ye olde nut job, but it works fine and I've not had any problems with my Bionx and love it, apart from when someone very nearly knocked me off the other day and made me ponder giving it up

Let me know if there are any other questions I can help with.

Cheers
Nick

 

[AlbertoC67]

Alberto, you raise a good point which I should have mentioned: you remove your existing wheel (with its cassette/freewheel) and fit a freewheel to the Bionx rear wheel and then fit that to your bike. The kit doesn't come with a freewheel, so you need to get one as it will not work with a cassette.

The rear wheel, for what it's worth, is not quick release - ye olde nut job, but it works fine and I've not had any problems with my Bionx and love it, apart from when someone very nearly knocked me off the other day and made me ponder giving it up

Let me know if there are any other questions I can help with.

Cheers
Nick

Many thanks, Nick, so I must buy a new freewheel with a new set of gears, am I wrong?
The cassette is the set of gears, isn't it?

Excuse me, I understood you had an accident, am I wrong?
If yes, I'm afraid about that.
I have some pics of my exisying bike, if you want I can send you all, so you can give me some of you advices.
Thanks anyway
Alberto

 

[AlbertoC67]

This is from a BionX site Alberto:

The BionX system can be installed on most bicycles by replacing the rear wheel with the BionX motor-wheel. The BionX system can be retrofitted on all bicycle models: road, mountain, tandem, folding, recumbent and recumben trikes counting up to 24 speeds.

Therefore, it seems you just fit your existing gears.

Thanks all

 

[flecc]

Hi Alberto

Pending Nick coming in, it's a complete freewheel you want with sprockets like this one.

The cassette is the old system that you had, a set of sprockets mounted on a freewheeling centre, like the one below:

 

[Nick]

Alberto, Flecc's pictures are right - you just need a freewheel (the bit of the back wheel with the cogs on). You do not need anything else - the derailleurs, etc will work with the new freewheel. There are not many 8 speed freewheels about, and I got mine from NyceWheels in New York when I ordered the Bionx. That said, a 7 speed freewheel will be more than enough as I can cycle up most hills around here in top gear, so even if you are in a hilly area, you will not need as many gears on an assisted bike.

I did indeed have an accident and thanks for your kind words. The reason I mentioned it is to explain why I wanted an electric bike and to show that, even with limited strength and flexion (my knee doesn't bend very well), an electric bike enables me to cycle faster than the club cyclists I know.

My technical knowledge is pretty limited but, having a Bionx, I can obviously help with some questions. Flecc is very knowledgable and helpful and between us and the others here, I am sure we can answer all your questions. Feel free to post your pictures on this site - happy to help.

Cheers
Nick

 

[AlbertoC67]

The pics I said

Thanks for your kindness,

These are the first 5 pics I told you in my last post:

n.1 I screw off the locking flange

n.2 the smaller sprocket is free

n.3 the set of the other 6 sprockets (the cassette) can be removed

n.4 that’s the free wheel with outside cogs (not equal divided)

n.5 a detail of the groove in the rear forks, in the Bionx site I red that the system must be fitted with “the notch” (what’s that?) pointing to the ground, but this groove is 30° degrees tilted in respect to the horizontal line and so I must use a strange Bionx tool to rotate that notch.

 

[AlbertoC67]

The pics I said

The rest of the pics:

n.6 the inside measure of rear forks: 134 mm (5”1/3)

n.7 groove inside measure: 10 mm

n.8 the hub model (part of a 1993 Shimano Deore LX 21 speeds)

 

[flecc]

Sorry you've had no answer yet Alberto, but as I'm not familiar with the BionX hub centre I'm leaving this for Nick's knowledge. Hopefully he'll see it soon.
.

 

[Nick]

Hi Alberto

This looks the same as mine, and I think the dimensions are the same too.

Unfortunately, I haven't got anything with which to measure this:

I am assuming the sprocket mechanism is a cassette - Flecc? It does not look like the freewheel I got with my Bionx which screwed onto the wheel.

I am not sure I've been much help really - can the Bionx supplier help, or maybe you could email Bionx themselves? As you've guessed, I am not that up on the technical aspects which, whilst perhaps not very helpful for you, is good news in a way as if I get on OK with the Bionx, then anyone should be able to!

Cheers
Nick