Help to fault find on a Carrera Battery

[saneagle]

Yes thanks assuming all the green wires are the multi coloured ones .

which are + positive on this diagram ?

but on my battery the central grey wire on the right side is a negative ?

My battery has no fuses I would think it’s a good plan to add some while it’s apart ?
If it’s saveable

And has no C-
The Charge and Discharge wires just connected all together to the BMS

Carrera E Spec/Vengeance (Phylion) battery - charge port replacement HOW TO

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Ok I understand be very careful will do .

I will just try the first one and see how it goes .

I have the first cell group on charge

Positive to positive, negative to negative. Check...!

Positive to positive, negative to negative. Check...!

Positive to positive, negative to negative. Check...!

Positive to positive, negative to negative. Check...!

Positive to positive, negative to negative. Check...!

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Will do I will check double check and check again.

I will let this charge for about an hour then check the voltage

what would you expect if it working ?

I can do this for a couple of hours today supervised then I have to go to work I will disconnect it let you know how it goes with the first group .

Carrera E Spec/Vengeance (Phylion) battery - charge port replacement HOW TO

continue tomorrow..

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Carrera E Spec/Vengeance (Phylion) battery - charge port replacement HOW TO

yes good idear if we can save the battery it would be good to change it to standard charge port Two pin like the YOSE one .

 

[Baz the balloon man]

If there is enough wire exposed, small crocodile clips. If not, maybe carefully remove a mm or two of insulation to make room.

Always remember these are connected to the cells, there must not be any possibility when you have finished of any accidental short circuits.

Each cell group sits between two of the small wires, one each side of the battery. Start by mapping them out, using the multimeter, so that you know which wires represent each cell group.

From the numbers I listed above, you are looking for 10 places where the voltage from one wire to the other is in the range 1.5 to 2.0 volts.

Start with black probe on the two black wires, and red probe on the grey. That should be 1.5V, and that is your first cell group.

Move the black probe to grey, and red probe to blue. That should also be 1.5V and is the second cell group.

And so on. By measuring and recording you can determine the order of the wires. You charge each cell group by connecting to the wires on its - and + ends, being very careful to get polarity correct.

At half an amp, it will take a few hours for each cell group, but you should check voltage frequently to make sure it is behaving as expected, especially for the first cell group.

Remember that half the cell groups have + on one side of the battery, and half have + on the other side. Check, check and check again, do not make mistakes.

while this is charging I can still probe some other wires

BP yellow wire RP orange wire is 1.9 this will be my third group ?
RB Red Wire BP to Orange wire 1.9 this will be my forth group
RB to White BP to Green wire1.5 This will be fifth group
BP to White RB to yellow 1.5 This will be Sixth group

and so on until I get 10 sets is this correct ?

any higher readings than 2 volts are incorrect and are not sets ?

IE

RB to Red BP to white = 5.9 V so this is not a set ?

 

[matthewslack]

Will do I will check double check and check again.

I will let this charge for about an hour then check the voltage

what would you expect if it working ?

I can do this for a couple of hours today supervised then I have to go to work I will disconnect it let you know how it goes with the first group .


continue tomorrow..

Depends on how many Ah the battery is. The voltage will rise quite fast up to about 3V because the discharge curve is steep at this point.

Two hours at 0.6A should give a noticeable increase of several tenths of a volt. Measure it after the charger is disconnected, and after a few minutes to let it settle.

When you have time, do another of the cell groups and measure and record the voltage every 15 or 30 minutes or so. Record time to nearest minute and voltage. Then you will get a feel for how long each will take, and if you plot a graph of voltage against time you will see the curved shape.

 

[matthewslack]

while this is charging I can still probe some other wires

BP yellow wire RP orange wire is 1.9 this will be my third group ?
RB Red Wire BP to Orange wire 1.9 this will be my forth group
RB to White BP to Green wire1.5 This will be fifth group
BP to White RB to yellow 1.5 This will be Sixth group

and so on until I get 10 sets is this correct ?

any higher readings than 2 volts are incorrect and are not sets ?

IE

RB to Red BP to white = 5.9 V so this is not a set ?

In the discharged present state, anything above 2.0V doesn't fit with your measurements.

5.9V in the present state is across multiple consecutive cell groups. There are intermediate connections between those two wires.

You really need to 'map' the battery pack before you start. There are ten cell groups, eleven wires. Starting at that one with the two black wires, work out the order and write it down. The wires will alternate between left and right sides of the battery, because each cell group has one end each side.

You've probably understood this already, but just to be really clear: if the battery pack was opened out, you would have a straight line of ten groups of cells. Each group is 3 or 4 or even 5 cells, connected in parallel, and behaving like one really high capacity cell. The little wires are connected to both ends, and every intermediate connection in that long run of ten cell groups.

In the folded up state it is harder to visualise this.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Carrera E Spec/Vengeance (Phylion) battery - charge port replacement HOW TO

just had a quick look on e bay no luck any recommendations as to where to buy standard charging ports uk ?

 

[saneagle]

just had a quick look on e bay no luck any recommendations as to where to buy standard charging ports uk ?

That's because you don't know what they're called. You should have typed 5.5mm jack socket:

10Pcs Dc Power Jack Socket DC-022 2.1 X 5.5 Mm With Screw Nut rs | eBay

Rated Load: DC 30V 0.5A. Insulation Resistance: >=100MΩ DC250V. Actuating Force: 3-20N. Sat, 18 Feb 2023 07:28:29 GMT 638123309096071115 0700738A5C161B1B. However, we will try our best to minimize it.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[Baz the balloon man]

In the discharged present state, anything above 2.0V doesn't fit with your measurements.

5.9V in the present state is across multiple consecutive cell groups. There are intermediate connections between those two wires.

You really need to 'map' the battery pack before you start. There are ten cell groups, eleven wires. Starting at that one with the two black wires, work out the order and write it down. The wires will alternate between left and right sides of the battery, because each cell group has one end each side.

You've probably understood this already, but just to be really clear: if the battery pack was opened out, you would have a straight line of ten groups of cells. Each group is 3 or 4 or even 5 cells, connected in parallel, and behaving like one really high capacity cell. The little wires are connected to both ends, and every intermediate connection in that long run of ten cell groups.

In the folded up state it is harder to visualise this.

I see
I have to go to work now I will disconnect it for now and continue it when I get home .
I will map it out first .

first set is up to 2.5v and the on and off switch now has power and lights.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Nice one Mathew

 

[matthewslack]

I think you will need 3 or 4 hours per cell group to get to 3.3V.

If your meter reads to hundredths of volts, try to get all 10 groups within say 5 hundredths. Then it will all be fairly well balanced as well.

 

[Nealh]

Imv if you are saying some cell groups are sub 2v then the battery is a bin job, they masy recover but will let you down when they sag terribly or collapse on the first hill.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

So

Imv if you are saying some cell groups are sub 2v then the battery is a bin job, they masy recover but will let you down when they sag terribly or collapse on the first hill.

I hope not I was just getting happy

 

[Baz the balloon man]

I think you will need 3 or 4 hours per cell group to get to 3.3V.

If your meter reads to hundredths of volts, try to get all 10 groups within say 5 hundredths. Then it will all be fairly well balanced as well.

Hi Mathew

I have all the cell groups 3.0v or slightly over .

I am just trying to get them all up to 3.3 minimum.

However there is still no voltage across the plus and minus terminals on the PCB/BMS

The on and of button is lighting up but one of the light flashes on and off then all the lights go out.

I have tried holding the button down for 30 seconds.

the lights come on and off the last light flashes then they go off .

I have tested to voltage across the terminals when the lights are flashing no voltage.

 

[cyclebuddy]

I haven't read the whole thread because I can't be bothered, and notwithstanding all sensible logic suggests your battery appears totally knackered anyway... but IIRC isn't this the Halfords STL battery that had problems charging through the charge port, whereupon Halfords supplied a "charging dock" for charging this style of battery through the discharge terminals instead... before discontinuing using these STL batteries altogether?

IDR if those issues were caused by dodgy BMS's or failure/breaking of the very small charge pins but I'm sure if you hunt back on the forum you'll find others who had similar issues with these batteries.

 

[matthewslack]

I can't help with the BMS etc, no experience of it. I was hoping once the cell voltages were sensible it might play nice.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

I can't help with the BMS etc, no experience of it. I was hoping once the cell voltages were sensible it might play nice.

Me too I was hoping it would kick back in .

I have all the 10 groups up over 3.1 up to 3.5 I do not think I can get them up any more .

I have found a battery guy over in Peckham not to far from me .

I think I will see how this one holds its charge over the next week if it does not drop I will take a chance and see if a different BMS can be fitted so I can use it on a KT or YOSE kit .

I would imagine that the after market Joycube Carrera replacement BMS may do the job but I will definitely get a proffesional to have a look and do it if it’s not knackered.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

I haven't read the whole thread because I can't be bothered, and notwithstanding all sensible logic suggests your battery appears totally knackered anyway... but IIRC isn't this the Halfords STL battery that had problems charging through the charge port, whereupon Halfords supplied a "charging dock" for charging this style of battery through the discharge terminals instead... before discontinuing using these STL batteries altogether?

IDR if those issues were caused by dodgy BMS's or failure/breaking of the very small charge pins but I'm sure if you hunt back on the forum you'll find others who had similar issues with these batteries.

Hi
I am trying to charge direct on the BMS/PCB terminals so by passing the input and discharge sockets which are just connected to each other then go to The PCB.

which as there are voltages around the BMS it’s like some thing is blocking the charge getting around fully ..

so yes the BMS is definitely failing not sure about the cells yet but at least I know a bit more than I did last week

 

[Baz the balloon man]

If any one can recommend a replacement after market BMS from Topbike or similar pls let me know .

I going to sell all the Carrera bits so do not need one to work with a Suntour controller.