Help to fault find on a Carrera Battery

[Baz the balloon man]

Hi All

I have bought a job lot of Carrera bikes and parts from an online auction .

One of the bikes is a Carrera Vulcan sold as seen battery not charging.

I have dismantled the unit please see photos attached .

I think it’s around 2019 onwards serial numbers on the photos ex display bike.the battery looks new.

I have tried charging direct onto the PCB board , as in the photo the charging port only has live and Negative input.

The other 3 small wires yellow , black ,light brown are connected to the discharge port and PCB , I assume this is the so called hand shake between the battery and controller. ?

Question Does this some how communicate with the charger as there are only red and black coming in to the charging port ?

I only have the later 2023 Carrera charger so I tried my YOSE Phylion charger which is the same voltage and this went green so showing the battery as being charged.

I am thinking about splicing into the later Carrera charger and taking a positive and negative fee onto the PCB board terminal’s , any reason this will not work ?

Before I find a local battery engineer I would like to test the voltage across the cell without dismantling any further .

Can any one help and tell me can I put my volt meter across the left hand positive Side and Right side negative side onto the different colour terminals there are 6 on each side . Plus Two that I asume are the main inputs with Two black wires each side pls see photo.

Cheers Baz



Cheers

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Whoops forgot to post the photos here they are

 

[Baz the balloon man]

More

 

[matthewslack]

When you say not charging, and then 'I've only got the later charger', do you mean you are unable to charge it because you do not have the right charger?

If so, then it might be safer to get the right charger rather than mess about with the internals!

 

[saneagle]

You measure the voltage on the charge port. If it's between 32v and 42v, it will charge with a two wire charger. If the voltage is around 14v, the port is switched off by the BMS.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

When you say not charging, and then 'I've only got the later charger', do you mean you are unable to charge it because you do not have the right charger?

If so, then it might be safer to get the right charger rather than mess about with the internals!

Hi Mathew
All I have done is by passed the charging port it’s only a plug .
And connected the wires directly using the correct voltage .
I need 3 chargers , for different Carreras I only have the latest one I would like to make the latest One work on all Three charging ports if possible .

I have bought the battery in the photos as not charging I really just want to see if the cells are any good before I go and see about getting it repaired professionally.

 

[matthewslack]

An adapter outside the battery might be better than a change inside.

 

[Nealh]

Check the cell voltages first to see if there is an issue with any of them.
It is easy to do via the multi colour BMS sense wire connector shown in your jpeg pic 2127 .

 

[Baz the balloon man]

You measure the voltage on the charge port. If it's between 32v and 42v, it will charge with a two wire charger. If the voltage is around 14v, the port is switched off by the BMS.

Thanks mate.
does this help see photos attached
no power no voltage between negative and positive.

using the YOSE charger that has identical out put as the Carrera one

41.8

and if I go across to of the side side terminal s 1.3 that’s with or without the charger connected.

I am not leaving this powered up unattended

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Check the cell voltages first to see if there is an issue with any of them.
It is easy to do via the multi colour BMS sense wire connector shown in your jpeg pic 2127 .

Thanks Nealh

working from back to front on the small colour terminals are they the opposite side of each series of cells

 

[Baz the balloon man]

And should I disconnect the charger to do this ?

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Surprising that a £500.00 battery has the cheaper cells no brand or not really .

one of the bikes I bought for parts that has come from Halfords they have gone into it and replaced every single electronic componen with a failed one .

I find this a really dishonest thing to do if they are going to canabalise a display bike for spares then to then go to all the trouble of. replacing the parts in place of just removing them is a real shite thing to do .

I am taking it up with the Auction house

 

[Nealh]

Black is b0- /0v and then the next wire in turn is odd cell #1 and the next even cell #2 and so on.
The last Red is cell # 10.
Probe Black and the first colured wire with red probe for cell grouop #1 reading .
Move Red probe to next colour wire cell group #2 and Black probe to cell group #1,
continue along the multi connector until one has all 10 indivdual cell group readings . The last cell group reading #10 will be Red probe to Red wire and Black probe to #9 brownish/pink coloured wire.

 

[Nealh]

And should I disconnect the charger to do this ?

Typically one will check without charging occurring.
One wants to see 10 seperate cell voltages and whether there are any large discrpency between the readings.

 

[Nealh]

The battery in your pic has the Panny PF 2900mah cells .

 

[saneagle]

Surprising that a £500.00 battery has the cheaper cells no brand or not really .

one of the bikes I bought for parts that has come from Halfords they have gone into it and replaced every single electronic componen with a failed one .

I find this a really dishonest thing to do if they are going to canabalise a display bike for spares then to then go to all the trouble of. replacing the parts in place of just removing them is a real shite thing to do .

I am taking it up with the Auction house

You're making it more difficult than it is. When a battery won't charge, the first thing you do is measure the voltage on the charge socket. You need to do that with it connected. If you get any result not in the range 31v to 42v, you go to the next stage.

Open the battery and measure the voltage on the positions where the charge wires fix to on the BMS or cell-pack.

AFAICS, you have a BMS that uses comms, so the charge port won't be switched on, neither will the battery give any output until it does the handshaking with the controller or charger, but the above tests will tell you that. Nobody needs to guess or fiddle about with cell voltages until you get past that point.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

You're making it more difficult than it is. When a battery won't charge, the first thing you do is measure the voltage on the charge socket. You need to do that with it connected. If you get any result not in the range 31v to 42v, you go to the next stage.

Open the battery and measure the voltage on the positions where the charge wires fix to on the BMS or cell-pack.

AFAICS, you have a BMS that uses comms, so the charge port won't be switched on, neither will the battery give any output until it does the handshaking with the controller or charger, but the above tests will tell you that. Nobody needs to guess or fiddle about with cell voltages until you get past that point.

Ok I will put it back on the bike and start again

 

[Baz the balloon man]

But before I do how would one test the on and off switch one red wire and 11 white wires on a small lcd PCB .

iI have a gut feeling this may be the problem .

 

[saneagle]

But before I do how would one test the on and off switch one red wire and 11 white wires on a small lcd PCB .

iI have a gut feeling this may be the problem .

You don't heed it on the bike to test the charge port voltage. Just connect it up.

Measure with the switch in both positions.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Ok I will put it back on the bike and start again

Morning I put the battery back onto the bike so it’s connected to the controller.
I left the top cover off.

The voltage across the plus and negative terminals is 0