Help - Police impound bike

[Blew it]

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[simonbarnett]

........

Anyone else spotted the 10 mile range on this Lifecycle 500w? So to avoid draining the batttery you'd need to recharge at work if you were commuting over 5 miles

 

[brucehawsker]

Only if you never pedelled . But well spotted!

 

[fishingpaul]

I followed a racing bike rider the other day,not a young one but i was suprised at the speeds he maintained,even into a headwind on the flat he was pushing 20mph,he seemed to be trying to outrun me on the flat and downhill but once we got to a real hill he was blown away.

 

[flecc]

Last night the bike was being driven home in the UK and was stopped. The police argued that the bike was illegal and impounded it because the power continued to be applied even when the bike had reached a measured 15.5mph. They essentially tested it there and then against a gun.

Flecc says a 10% tolereance - love to know chapter and verse.

I understand that manufacturers have been told the 10% tolerance, probably by the DfT. I remember David Miall of Wisper mentioning this.

The police are entitled to confiscate any motor vehicle being used without valid insurance, and if this was assisted above 17 mph it was a motor vehicle. It can be ordered to be destroyed, but one can appeal against that and if that's in order to make the bike legal it should be returned.

One problem with many hub motor bikes is the lack of power phase down with speed. EU law requires the power to gradually reduce as it approaches 25 kph (15.5 mph), and on systems like the Panasonic one it's almost impossible to tell if there's any power left at just before 15 mph. This plus it's power only being applied via pedalling makes them very difficult to detect even if over geared for a couple of extra mph.

Not all bikes are limited by the controller, many are only limited by battery voltage and my present bike is like that. When fully charged it assists to a bit above 17 mph for a mile or so, but that declines as the charge is used and it ends up at around 14.5 mph with the battery fairly empty.
.

 

[fishingpaul]

Again with the present cost cutting measures,will the authorities be able to even look at a possible ebike prosecution,i am sure the bike would have to be confiscated and tested somewhere at great expense,not something that would be a top priority at the moment.

 

[rog_london]

On the subject of speed limits and how they're enforced, in the UK the magistrates' courts generally apply a rule of '10% plus 2', which means the 30 mph speed limit lets you push your luck up to 35 mph before you'd be prosecuted. I have heard of 30 mph Gatso cameras triggering at bang on 35 mph but not lower. Of course it's not the camera triggering which gets you 'done' with a Gatso, it's the manual interpretation of the resultant photographs, and I suspect in general the threshold is set higher than 35 mph to avoid running out of film on minor infractions of the speeding law when they'd really like to concentrate on more blatant offenders. As to how the camera vans have their thresholds set, well, you take your chances.

On the motorway you can get away with anything less than 79 mph.

I don't know whether a similar defence might apply to e-bike riders. If it did you'd be OK with power assistance under about 18.5 mph. As to how a bike which was marginal could be tested at the roadside, I think the police would be on a sticky wicket there too, as a rider of exactly the same weight and dress would be needed, a billiard-table flat test track, and a guarantee of no contribution due to even a gentle breeze.....

I suspect also that it wouldn't do to ADMIT you were exceeding the legal powered limit by any margin at all since then there would be no burden of proof on the police in court. The rule about 'anything you say might be used against you in court' would definitely be one to bear in mind here.

Note I'm talking about a MARGINAL e-bike. Something that will do 30 MPH with no pedalling wouldn't help you one bit in court.

Rog.

 

[Alex728]

Authority will be Thames, or Hampshire or Surry. Not sure which. Why the guess of hampshire?

Hampshire are notorious for enforcing traffic laws against cyclists quite harshly, OTOH along with Surrey and TVP they have a lot of cycling officers.

years ago when I lived in TVP there was one who was really into bikes, for a cop he was actually OK (this coming from a someone who was a young raver then ) but if you were breaking the law on your bike he would tell you off.. his bikes went from a old style Raleigh in 1985 to a Police MTB (with lights and sirens!) in 2004...

Certainly Hampshire and Surrey also use or have used e-bikes, I think one Surrey bobby has a Wisper..

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I needed a good laugh!

I was sitting doing some paperwork and decided to catch up with my Pedelec reading......... this is such a good forum ............. When I happened upon this wonderful piece of fiction (please accept my most humble apologies if I am incorrect Bruce but it is a tad hard to believe ).

The bike in question certainly is not a Wisper as I am sure we would have heard by now which leads me to believe it is a bike from your old employee.... sounds a little like sour grapes Bruce? I will call Steve to see if it is one of his.

Just to get this right, you are saying that a police car measured a bike exceeding 15.5mph + 10% (See EN regs) = just over 17mph whilst the rider was pedalling then realised that the rider was on an electrically assisted bike and the power had not cut off as it should have done according to guide lines? How? The police then bothered to stop the rider, have his/her bike picked up and taken to the pound, have it independently tested?

Bruce I could be absolutely wrong and would be happy to make a big apology for being so rude you if I am but this does sound absolutely absurd.

Of course the bike may have been massively souped up and was bombing along at a very high speed in conditions where the rider could not have been moving so fast without assistance, so as I say, I may be absolutely out of order to question you. However I would be very grateful of you could let me have details of the incident, the date, where it happened, the name of the rider etc and I will follow up. If this really is the case we all need to be made aware of the implications.

One other small point

You say;

On a totally different topic, I have just heard that a contact of mine was stopped by the police last because it was illegal. It was apparently going well over 15mph and the power was still on - this apparently makes it illegal. What is the position on his? Does anyone know of any such incidents?

Thanks

Bruce

You then say;

I think it is more the case that the bloke (I assume he is male) had been riding fast on the bike near his property and had attracted the attention of neighbours (with whom he has a poor relationship) who complained to the police.....

This contact of yours, is he or she not certain which gender they are or are you having problems working it out?

Do you have a new job with one of the companies selling electric bikes with a 200W motor?

All the best

David

 

[Alex728]

I think it is more the case that the bloke (I assume he is male) had been riding fast on the bike near his property and had attracted the attention of neighbours (with whom he has a poor relationship) who complained to the police.....

even then the cops have to justify whether their action is proportionate.

is this a younger person riding aggressively / on pavements / where cycling is prohibited and telling pedestrians to get out of their way? that will eventually result in bother from cops even on a push bike as its anti-social behaviour. he may even have come to notice to cops for other crime if they are putting that much effort into getting him...

about 10 years ago there were those illegal monkey bikes in the same areas (both petrol and electric) so cops do know how to deal with them - so if course if the cops happen to find something defective about the vehicle they can impound it but I still find it hard to believe a normal 250W bike would get users in trouble.

I was no goody two-shoes in my youth and spent a lot of time getting up to all sorts in TVP, Hantspol and Surpol areas (mostly rave-related) but there was still an "unwritten code of practice" with cops and if you weren't really harming anyone else they didn't bother you and if they did bother you on the road there was often a good reason for it..

 

[Oxygen Bicycles]

is it a gossip?

Hi Bruce,

Please give me a details of this case and I will certainly follow this up. It does not make sense why Police would bother to stop someone. Then how would they assess the bike and it's top speed on throttle without having appropriate equipment. As far as I'm concerned it's only Tuv and SGS that have the appropraite euipment to check the speed.

If they would stop him then under what law, what paragraph. He should have been told all that. It would also mean that we have so knowlegeabe police officers with all the laws and regulations in a small finger.

My question: Is anyone seeking what happens if caught with overpowered motor and maybe is it worth to start selng these???

Certainly I hardly believe the Police could even get involved in this but if it did I would certainly like to know more details.

Kind regards

Andrew

 

[Psycosis]

I feel the same way as everyone else,since i ride in every day to work and my average speed is 20mph, if there is nothing about i can zip along at 25, or 30mph if i pedal like a maniac, but i won't do this in town or anywhere i could get caught.

So far i have gone past so many police riding my bike at higher speeds than are legal and even other cyclists and most people don't even notice, even though it sounds like a milkfloat.
So unless this person in question is not pedaling and going very quick then that would be a puzzling stop.
I had a lycra cyclist ride along infront of me today after overtaking me, going at 25mph, he kept it up all the way along that road.

I would also wonder if this cyclist was on a road on their own. Especially since i wouldn't imagine the police would purposely target a bike. Maybe there could have been confusion with a car.

It does sound a little bit fishy with the lack of details, especially if its marginally over the legal speed when under power.

 

[Tex]

haven't the police got better things to do with their time there? "we run them in, we run them in, because we are the brave gendarmes". useless.

 

[Barnowl]

Big thumbs up for co-op croissants here. Big yawn regarding the chances of being nabbed by the rozzers for exceeding the speed limit on a pedelec.

 

[Stumpi]

YouTube - Kirsty MacColl - Chip Shop (Country Version)

 

[drillam]

Big thumbs up for co-op croissants here.

+1 ,,,,

 

[eTim]

I think Bruce is trolling but it's an interesting thread nonetheless.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I must agree

Thanks Bruce for bring up the subject it certainly needed exploring!

All the best

David

 

[morphix]

hmm

This thread has got me wondering... Now the DfT has finished it's public consultation on e-bikes and the likely result being to harmonise UK legislation with the current EU regulations, meaning stricter regulations on manufacturers and dealers, and the banning of throttle-only power and power without pedalling, where does that leave all those who bought bikes before the new changes take effect? Will these bikes automatically become illegal and liable to seizure? That seems unlikely eh? Perhaps the government will just say you can't use throttle-only on roads and leave it at that. The police could become far more active in stopping and checking bikes to make sure they meet the EU regulations. They might be less likely to turn a blind eye to bikes going faster than 15mph. What do you guys think?

The next few months might be a good time to purchase before things get tightened up eh?

Here is a link to the public consultation papers and proposals for anyone who hasn't seen them and can be bothered to read through all the twaddle:

Electrically assisted pedal cycles consultation

 

[morphix]

I feel the same way as everyone else,since i ride in every day to work and my average speed is 20mph, if there is nothing about i can zip along at 25, or 30mph if i pedal like a maniac, but i won't do this in town or anywhere i could get caught.

So far i have gone past so many police riding my bike at higher speeds than are legal and even other cyclists and most people don't even notice, even though it sounds like a milkfloat.
So unless this person in question is not pedaling and going very quick then that would be a puzzling stop.
I had a lycra cyclist ride along infront of me today after overtaking me, going at 25mph, he kept it up all the way along that road.

I would also wonder if this cyclist was on a road on their own. Especially since i wouldn't imagine the police would purposely target a bike. Maybe there could have been confusion with a car.

It does sound a little bit fishy with the lack of details, especially if its marginally over the legal speed when under power.

I agree, this does seem unusual. Things are very relaxed at the moment aren't they, there's no reason why the police would seize a bike or even bother to stop someone unless it was going seriously fast without pedalling. Does this guy have a 500W-1000W motor or something crazy?! It may also be that he wasn't observing the highway code/riding safely and perhaps they stopped him and decided the bike was dangerous and not road safe for some reason.. as you said, not much details so all it's guessing.