Help needed

[SRS]

and thus enjoy the freedom we have been given.

Well, whoopie doo!! been given???

I am so grateful that someone, somewhere has decided that it is their right to give me this freedom.

As far as I am concerned I was born free.
It is a case that any freedom and so called rights are fast being eroded by these good for absolutely nothing useful people.

 

[flecc]

Well, whoopie doo!! been given???

I am so grateful that someone, somewhere has decided that it is their right to give me this freedom.

As far as I am concerned I was born free.
It is a case that any freedom and so called rights are fast being eroded by these good for absolutely nothing useful people.

In fairness, with e-bikes it is a freedom given, since they were preceded by motor vehicles and motor vehicle laws. Being powered, e-bikes would also have been subject to all those laws, as were the preceeding bicycles with add-on petrol motors which required a full motor cycle driving licence for example.

I'm thankful that the authorities finally realised that all those laws applying to auxiliary-powered bicycles was an inadvertent overkill and therefore exempted them, subject to some necessary limitations.

So granting an exemption is a gift of a freedom from what applied before.

 

[trex]

incidentally, if one uses a small RC ICE to charge up the battery while riding, would the bike still be considered as EPAC despite of the noise and fume? This is because a litre of petrol is equivalent to 9.7kWh - enough to ride for 500+ miles and the kit is no heavier than current lithium battery.

 

[SRS]

Flecc

Take your view onboard but like I say, I was born free.
It has been the powers that be that have taken any freedom away. If they choose to grant some freedom, then it only because they had taken it away in the first place.

 

[Oldie]

There may be a comparison to be had with motorcycle legislation.

Many smaller bikes (in particular, mopeds) come to this country in a "restricted" form in order to comply with the relevant legislation controlling maximum power output. So, an Italian moped easily capable of 60mph is restricted (by various means) to, say, 31mph in the UK. Of course, many teenagers deliberately remove the, often simple, restrictions and, thereby, break the law. Many are punished for doing so. However, I have yet to hear of a manufacturer being brought to book as they merely supplied the bike in the properly restricted form. Might I suggest, therefore, that ebikes which are sold in a restricted form will be treated similarly? ie play around with the components or alter the settings if you must, but be aware of the consequences.

 

[Croxden]

You guys are getting me worried. I had decided to have a Endeavour Bosch BS10 Sport. What now?

 

[103Alex1]

You guys are getting me worried. I had decided to have a Endeavour Bosch BS10 Sport. What now?

Your choice. You know you're buying a bike that's illegal to ride in the UK, unless you ride it on private land only to which the public have no access, or you get it registered as a low powered moped, attach a number plate, get a free tax disc, have it MOT'd, only ride it on roads (not cycle lanes or paths) and also wear a moped/motorcycle helmet.

It's perfectly simple - the risk you run is if someone decides to 'do' you for riding it on the roads without it being registered and your having a driving licence that covers this class of vehicle, you'll be done for operating a motor vehicle on the public highway without insurance and will most likely lose your driving licence for a long spell too (if you have one). That could happen whether you have an accident and someone gets hurt or whether you don't.

The only way around those risks is to settle for one of the bog standard 250W type-approved eBikes, don't meddle or mess with modding it to remove speed restrictions or try to get more out of it than the rules allow and get the best eBike you can for your needs within those limitations. Buying a ready made eBike and modding it, buying an S-Pedelec or riding a torquey self-build bike it's all the same - end result is plain and simple. As above. You run the same risks whichever route you take to getting round the limitations.

 

[Croxden]

Not what I wanted to hear but inevitable I suppose, thanks for the advise, I had hoped to get away with it.
Back to the drawing board.

 

[103Alex1]

Not what I wanted to hear but inevitable I suppose, thanks for the advise, I had hoped to get away with it.
Back to the drawing board.

You could well get away with it. But you'd always be running the risks. Within the scope of 250W rated bikes there are some very nice ones - albeit with the inherent limitations that the performance testing will accommodate... and I don't know of any that I'd be confident would get me up a 3-mile very steep hill at 10mph+ without being a big let down about half way through and ending up having to slog it to wind up drenched and exhausted at the top. There's only so much that can be done within these assist parameters.

.... and so within that performance range the bikes get nicer spec and the price tags go up in the thousands for what's in the end not that much better and certainly no racer. They're type-approved eBikes and there's only so much more that can be achieved within those parameters on the motor assist side of things without doing some form of modification.

I kind of figure if you're willing to risk it on an unregistered S-Pedelec (350W-rated) you may as well go the whole mile and kit out a bike with a decent range and a motor that's up to the hills. If you get hung you'll be hung either way .. but at least with the built bike it'll do what you hope it'll do - and be about half the price to boot !

 

[trex]

I would never exceed 15mph on cycle lanes if there is oncoming traffic but I feel safer riding 15-25mph on the roads and the 15mph cut out is just not pleasant. So what can I do? Also, what if the speed magnet got loosened and I am not aware of it?

 

[flecc]

incidentally, if one uses a small RC ICE to charge up the battery while riding, would the bike still be considered as EPAC despite of the noise and fume? This is because a litre of petrol is equivalent to 9.7kWh - enough to ride for 500+ miles and the kit is no heavier than current lithium battery.

If it's charging the battery that's also powering the e-bike motor, it is definitely illegal, since it would be impossible to prove that the generated part is only being used to charge the battery. In practice it would be just as likely to be powering the motor.

Even if charging a second spare battery while e-biking, it's illegal in at least one other way, since there are obscure laws about manufacturing and other commercial activities on the highway. For example, when readymix concrete trucks first appeared they fell foul of the law until a special exemption was hastily organised.

 

[flecc]

Flecc

Take your view onboard but like I say, I was born free.
It has been the powers that be that have taken any freedom away. If they choose to grant some freedom, then it only because they had taken it away in the first place.

Of course, and I wouldn't dispute that. However, that is akin to saying a society can run without law, and that is clearly untrue, given the extremes of human behaviour. Ultimately in an orderly society we grant permission to be administered and must accept the outcomes.

 

[flecc]

There may be a comparison to be had with motorcycle legislation.

Many smaller bikes (in particular, mopeds) come to this country in a "restricted" form in order to comply with the relevant legislation controlling maximum power output. So, an Italian moped easily capable of 60mph is restricted (by various means) to, say, 31mph in the UK. Of course, many teenagers deliberately remove the, often simple, restrictions and, thereby, break the law. Many are punished for doing so. However, I have yet to hear of a manufacturer being brought to book as they merely supplied the bike in the properly restricted form. Might I suggest, therefore, that ebikes which are sold in a restricted form will be treated similarly? ie play around with the components or alter the settings if you must, but be aware of the consequences.

That is what happens in practice with e-bikes too, there is no law against supplying any vehicle which does not comply to UK road regulations.

However, some suppliers have made the point that the position could be different with regard to third party insurance obligations. If an illegal vehicle caused an accident with serious and costly consequences, a court could rule that the supplier's behaviour was irresponsible and hold them liable for the costs, which could amount to many millions for life-long care for example.

The only way a supplier might guard against that would be for the vehicle to permanently display a clear-to-see sign showing that it must not be used on the roads, with that stricture also prominently shown on all material relating to that vehicle, printed or online.