Help needed

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Marctwo

Pedelecer
Dec 1, 2012
182
1
As you might know, I've got the Woosh Sirocco CD on loan from Woosh. Someone asked about the internal drive system, so, as I had a bit of time to spare, I decided to open the main part of the motor to see how it worked and get some photos. The cover was a bit stuck, so I gave a good heave and as it came off, the bike fell over and some of the internals fell out. There's lots of spacers/shims etc and a rather complicated clutch, and I cant figure out how the correct assembly sequence.

The motor is made by TCM, but I can't find any trace of them from a Google search. Does anybody know who/where they are so that I can ask them for a schematic. I've got to get this thing back together before Redbridge or I'll be in Hatti's bad book.
lol. You had me feeling guilty there for a while having said I'd like to see one opened up.
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
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www.kudoscycles.com
The TCM crank drive motor

Base on Directives-EN15194 and Chinese national standard-GB17761.
III. Principle features
1. Three riding modes
Our bicycle can be ridden in three modes: power assistance riding, electricity riding and rider riding.
1) In power assistance riding mode, electric generator outputs the same power as that of rider riding mode, which makes rider feel the system provide power obviously and ride in easy way.
2) In electricity riding mode, electric generator output is separated from the rider riding mechanism to ensure riding safety.
3) In rider riding mode, no additional resistance comes from the magnetic resistance of electric generator which makes bicycle running as ordinary bicycle.
2. Ultra-low noise
Ultra-low noise application is used in the product, which ensures the starting noise and running noise keep 10% below the noise of hub motor.
3. Transmission structure well-designed with high safety performance and powerful climbing capability
The power output is generated at the location of mid-shaft of the product where the concentric output shaft is applied to match the traditional transmission structure of bicycle. The arrangement of mid-drive system ensures the mass distribution of bicycle fitting enough to improve the safety performance of bicycle. In addition, the shift system assembled at rear shaft enhances climbing capacity which is 2 times more than that of hub generator.
4. Easy to assembly
The structure of the system is simple in the way of installation, ie single pivot installation.
5. East to fit the frame of bicycle
The framed assembled with the mid-drive system could be designed in simple structure due to easy installation of the system.
6. Compact structure of the system
The compact structure does not affect the structure of the frame so much that bicycle looks like ordinary bike.
7. Lower power consumption and longer driving range
The perfect structural combination between the system and entire bicycle saves power consumption well so as to extend driving range. The driving range of bicycle assembled with lithium battery of 36V/9Ah will be 40km in electricity mode while 100km in power assistance mode.
8. Perfect design
The most advance design concept is performed with adjusting the hysteresis loop of permanent magnetic material and controlling algorithm to fulfill perfect integration of power system optical property and entire bicycle dynamics.
9. Stringent requirement of standards to ensure quality control system implemented
In the process of the development and production of the system, company works with National Motorcycle Quality Supervisory & Testing Center (Tianjin) to conduct all performance tests according to relevant standards to ensure the reliability and stability performance of the system.
IV. Stringent verification in durability test for the system
In the standardized process of mid-drive power system of electric bicycle, the system has been tested in accordance with standards to ensure quality performance. The following durability tests have been conducted.
1. Durability road test
Comprehensive durability road tests was performed with overall 5000km long road, the test track includes Even road, Belgian road, Washboard road, Sand and dust road, Big sine wave road, Ramping road and so on.
2. Durability bench test
Driving speed at 20km, test duration lasts more than 500 hours, the equivalent driving range is more than 10000 km.
3. Peak torque impact test
Continuously starting the system is more than 10,000 times under peak torque.
4. Dust proof and water proof test
Continuously performing the tests lasts more than 2 hours under the requirement at the level of IP54.
5. Strength durability test
Continuously performing pedal treading test is more than 100,000 times with150kg rider.
V. Specification:

items
specification
Rated voltage (V)
24/36

Rated power (W)
180-250

Generator type
Permanent magnet, direct currency, non-brush, non-Hall

Gear system
Steel gear

Max speed (r / min)
90

Peak torque (N · m)
60

Profile dimension (mm)
200 × 205 × 165

weight
≦ 4.5kg

noise (dB)
≦ 50

Dust proof, water proof
IP54

Sprocket chain
48T

Mid-shaft
D-inner screw thread

Power assistance sensor
Inner embedded, speeding type, 12 signal /

Ignoring the Chinglish,this gives as much info as I have available,the TCM motor is probably the most powerful(genuine 60Nm)legal crank drive currently available. Its design is so simple against the complexity of the Bosch system,which questions whether that system is overdesigned as it works so well in practice,which others will have the opportunity to check at Redbridge.
Shemozzle....by the interest that Woosh and Kudos have in this product its 'not a case of whether it has a market',its whether this small motor manufacturer can satisfy the demand.
KudosDave
 

shemozzle999

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 28, 2009
2,826
686
Not my quote Dave, only a reply to a thread d8veh put up on ES, I only cut and pasted it from ES, but nobody has confirmed whether the LCD unit is legal.
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bike-should-i-buy/14232-what-do-you-think-bikes-halfords-5.html#post176152

Originally posted by energise
I've got the Woosh Sirocco CD now, certainly gets me up those 25% hills a lot faster, I can pedal faster than the limit though on the flat never mind going down hills at 30 odd, this results in the annoying feeling of it dying underneath me, just like my horse so often does. Is there any simple way to de-limit this thing from the snails pace it's limited to by EU law?
It seems that the king meter is easy to derestrict. It would suit cyclists like me, I enjoy riding around 20-25mph on the flat (with a modicum of assistance) that I consider safe on our roads but not sweating on arrival. However, I'd like a better bike than the Chinese bikes.
 
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jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
This one had me going. Very good lol

Jerry
 

JuicyBike

Trade Member
Jan 26, 2009
1,671
527
Derbyshire
Hee Hee. I love April Fools day. I got suckered momentarily with a Minimum Stay proposal for Buxton Car Parks.
 

shemozzle999

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 28, 2009
2,826
686
I've have not got anything against more speed and power but I am worried that the concessions being hard fought for by certain responsible dealers could be very easily removed if it can be proved that others are intent in abusing them for short term commercial gain leaving the industry with less maneuverability in the future to gain more.

p.s. anybody else noticed the the forum is running one hour behind the time?
 
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trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
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shemozzle,
Interesting point. So what do you think of the Bosch dongle then?
 

shemozzle999

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 28, 2009
2,826
686
There are numerous items, including the dongle, on the market to cheat the electronics and like the early boost buttons I imagine they would not be favorably looked upon by the authorities when the new system has been ratified.
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
shemozzle, have you considered the difference between the boost button (increase power) and the Bosch dongle (soft cutout)?
The dongle makes the ride more pleasant and suits cyclists better I think.
 

shemozzle999

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 28, 2009
2,826
686
I am sorry but I do not subscribe to the King's new clothes theories.

What we want and what we can have are determined for us, right or wrong.

We have to live with it and concentrate on other areas on how we can improve the technology to be more affordable, reliable and thus enjoy the freedom we have been given.
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
interesting point of view.
shemozzle, is it not a personal choice to turn off the speed magnet or plug in a dongle or pressing the boost button? You seem to put the blame on the manufacturers for not making derestriction impossible and leave the customers un-criticised.
 

shemozzle999

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 28, 2009
2,826
686
interesting point of view.
shemozzle, is it not a personal choice to turn off the speed magnet or plug in a dongle or pressing the boost button? You seem to put the blame on the manufacturers for not making derestriction impossible and leave the customers un-criticised.

Sellers and manufacturers would not be prosecuted if the bike is operated illegally, only the user but they have initially allowed it.
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
So Bosch is guilty or the guy who makes the dongle or the shop that sells it?
You can see where this is leading to (weapons, tobacco, alcohol, religion and politics..)
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
First of all Boost buttons are specifically outlawed under even the current UK law,they are specifically mentioned so there is no 'grey area',they are illegal.
Assisted speed over 25 kmh or 15.5 mph is also illegal,under all UK law so any device which allows assisted speed over those limits is illegal and could effectively be argued as a boost button.
Any retailer who sells such a device where the result is to derestrict the cycle could be in some difficulty in the event of an accident,especially if the retailer fitted the device to the cycle. Because in the eyes of the law any retailer should be an 'expert' ie he should be in a position to give good advice to his customer,if he fits/sells such a device with a 'nod and wink' attitude it could be construed that he is effectively approving such a device for UK cycle usage. I don't think a disclaimer stating 'private road use only',even a signed one,would absolve the retailer of his responsibilities. With 'no win,no fee' lawyers just waiting for some injury claim I am certain that one would take up the case in the event of a lucrative injury claim.
As far as the user is concerned,we all know that the use of these dongles or plus 250 watt motors are illegal,just make sure you don't run into someone and hurt them,it could be the most expensive part you have ever fitted to a bike.
The trouble is that we are all trying to offer legal bikes with as much torque and speed as we are legally allowed within EN15194,David Miall and BEBA are working hard to keep your beloved throttle, but it only takes one national headline '30 MPH ILLEGAL E-BIKE KILLS CHILD' and you can forget any leniency that this government will allow and they will just say EN15194 with type approval and all your specials will be forced off the road.
Wise up guys! You could spoil it for all of us!
KudosDave
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
thank you kudosdave to make the subject crystal clear. So the boost button and Bosch dongle are illegal on public roads. Fair enough. But what is your view about customers re-programming their king meter or turn away the speed magnet?