Hailong HL1 36v Batteries - on/off switch - yes or no?

[Ghost1951]

I think if it was me, impatience would overcome my scruples and I would use the other charger with caution. You won't need to raise the low cells to the full 4.2 volts to see whether you have increased the range. If you raise them to something like 4v, you should see a much longer range from the pack, so you will have confirmed that you are on the right track.

Saneagle also said to pay attention to whether the low cells start to rise in voltage, because if they don't they will be heating up. You could solder some extra tail leads to your small plug that you made up so you can monitor the voltage rising as you charge. That way you can charge and keep tabs on how things are going at the same time.

 

[Cadence]

I think if it was me, impatience would overcome my scruples and I would use the other charger with caution. You won't need to raise the low cells to the full 4.2 volts to see whether you have increased the range. If you raise them to something like 4v, you should see a much longer range from the pack, so you will have confirmed that you are on the right track.

Saneagle also said to pay attention to whether the low cells start to rise in voltage, because if they don't they will be heating up. You could solder some extra tail leads to your small plug that you made up so you can monitor the voltage rising as you charge. That way you can charge and keep tabs on how things are going at the same time.

Hmmm...
Now you've tempted me! I want to do this outside and the forecast isn't good for the next couple of days. Perhaps I'll set it up for a short while on the next dry day and see how it goes. That ebay charger and socket is less than a tenner anyway so no big deal if I do charge the battery up before they arrive.

 

[thelarkbox]

any vape shops locally? they will have a range of chargers for cells, not ideal but a bit of solder and a bit extra flux should let you solder wires onto the charger terminals (edit or crocodile clip wires..) .. probably pick a single cell charger with usb input for less than a fiver.. but it may have a current throughput limit?

 

[saneagle]

Hmmm...
Now you've tempted me! I want to do this outside and the forecast isn't good for the next couple of days. Perhaps I'll set it up for a short while on the next dry day and see how it goes. That ebay charger and socket is less than a tenner anyway so no big deal if I do charge the battery up before they arrive.

Don't buy anything until you've checked that the voltage increases when you charge it with the Garmin charge. If a cell is faulty, you would have wasted your money. It's no problem to use the Garmin charger as long as you keep checking it. As well as checking the voltage, put your hand on the cells to make sure that none are getting warm.

 

[Cadence]

I set up the battery outside today and managed to lift the low 3.4v. cell group to match the others at 4.2v., giving a full 42v. battery voltage. Using the Garmin 5v. 2A. charger it took around 3 nerve-wracking hours. All the cells were cold throughout. The final 0.2v. seemed to take forever and I'm glad I didn't use a lower amperage charger.
I'm going to leave it to stand over the weekend to see if it holds the full charge. If it does I'll be doing a 30+ mile ride to see how it holds up, and taking a multi-meter and spare battery with me as insurance. If that's successful I'll give it a normal charge to see if it comes back up to 42v.

 

[Ghost1951]

Well done. Hope it will do the journey you propose. If i were you. I would do the last ten of those miles near home, so if it runs out you are not that far from home.

On the bad side, my weak cell group needs regular long balance charges to keep it in line with the others. Of course now you have balance, the BMS should manage that for you.if it goes south of 42 volts after charging you know what to do.

 

[saneagle]

I set up the battery outside today and managed to lift the low 3.4v. cell group to match the others at 4.2v., giving a full 42v. battery voltage. Using the Garmin 5v. 2A. charger it took around 3 nerve-wracking hours. All the cells were cold throughout. The final 0.2v. seemed to take forever and I'm glad I didn't use a lower amperage charger.
I'm going to leave it to stand over the weekend to see if it holds the full charge. If it does I'll be doing a 30+ mile ride to see how it holds up, and taking a multi-meter and spare battery with me as insurance. If that's successful I'll give it a normal charge to see if it comes back up to 42v.

The fact that it took three hours is a good sign that the cells are healthy. The only question is how it got like that. If a bleed resistors transistor got stuck, it would have gone all the way to zero. Its unusual for one cell group to go down when the battery's in regular use. Some batteries use one cell group to power the BMS, so if you don't use the battery for a long time, that group goes down.

 

[Cadence]

I'm leaving the BMS disconnected for now to check whether any of the cells lose charge over the next 24-48 hours. All the other cells seemed to hold full voltage over the last few days. The battery has had regular use, never been run down below about 36 volts and used straight after full charging. I don't think I left it unused for more than around 4 weeks -even if it meant doing a short 1-2 mile ride.
I admit that I didn't pay much attention to the full charge voltage when it worked OK, but in retrospect I don't think it ever showed 42 volts on the display from new - more like 41.5 - 41.7v.

 

[saneagle]

I'm leaving the BMS disconnected for now to check whether any of the cells lose charge over the next 24-48 hours. All the other cells seemed to hold full voltage over the last few days. The battery has had regular use, never been run down below about 36 volts and used straight after full charging. I don't think I left it unused for more than around 4 weeks -even if it meant doing a short 1-2 mile ride.
I admit that I didn't pay much attention to the full charge voltage when it worked OK, but in retrospect I don't think it ever showed 42 volts on the display from new - more like 41.5 - 41.7v.

We're you only charging to 90% to prolong your battery life - tee hee?

 

[Cadence]

No. Charging to full (green light) then using the bike immediately after - usually a couple of miles or so to lower it a bit.
As an aside, I contacted Yose Power about this when it was 2 weeks from the end of the 18 month warranty, After much explaining and sending several videos with meter readings showing they asked me to sent it to a place in London for inspection (at my expense). I asked them for advice about which carrier to use, bearing mind restrictions for carrying batteries. The reply I got was "don't say it's a battery, just say it is a bike part".
I wasn't prepared to do this as I would be liable if something happened while in transit. In the end I asked for, and received, a discount on a new battery, so there wasn't (and isn't now) any urgency with trying to sort out the original one.

 

[Ghost1951]

Keep us informed on how things go. I'm interested to see what happens.

 

[Cadence]

Keep us informed on how things go. I'm interested to see what happens.

I will do. After 12 hours the suspect cell group is holding up at 4.2 volts. I'll give it another 12 hours, and if it's still OK I'm going to reconnect the BMS and take readings at 12 and 24 hours. That should help determine whether there is a cell or BMS problem. After that it's a ride into the unknown!

 

[Cadence]

The voltage was holding up after 12 hours at a full 42v. with the BMS connected, so I've put the battery back together again. Later in the week I'm hoping to do a 30+ mile test run to see if it cuts out and how much range it has. My hybrid has a downtube battery mount and I've screwed a spare one to the rear rack, so I can take the new battery with me to swap over if needed.

I have, however, discovered an interesting phenomenon. My 3 bikes all have identical control set-ups. Yose Power (Lishui) 18A. controllers and C500 displays. With a full 42V. reading at the discharge socket I fitted the battery to each in turn. The displays indicated 41.4v.,41.9v. and 42v. I don't think that this is significant (??), but that first one is quite a bit out!

 

[Ghost1951]

The display unit voltage measures are not made with laboratory grade equipment. I wouldn't worry. I have seen differences between my own multi meter and the display on my BBS001 bike and also between multimeters - though on them it was usually small - to the second decimal point.

I think you have fixed the issue and got another battery as a replacement, so you are in a good position. Use the restored battery and let us know how it does.

As I think I said in my comments on the thread - my 13.5 Ahr battery that went very out of balance over its first winter, is now three years old and can still deliver 42 miles of range with good pedalling input from me, but it does tend to drift out of balance again if not left on the green charger light for many hours from time to time. I suspect that one of the cells is defective and can not deliver the same power as the others, so that group declines in voltage in use and unless balance charged, over time it will go down and down because the strongest cells dictate when the normal charging process stops and the red charger LED turns green. Knowing the issue, I can counteract it and still get a decent range out of the battery. It has sixty cells in it - not that surprising that one of them is a bit duff.

Good luck.

 

[Cadence]

Managed an absolutely glorious ride today to test the battery, taking in Berkswell and Meriden (Warwickshire). I must have driven past it loads of times, but never stopped to look at the National War Memorial for Cyclists:-



Anyway, total distance of 32 miles and the battery voltage was 35v. at the end (from a full 42v. at the start). More importantly it didn't cut out en-route so I didn't need to swap to the other battery.
When I got nearer home I gave it some "welly" up a steep-ish hill - PAS 5 and just ghost pedalling. It climbed well with controller, motor and battery still cold. There was a noticeable small amount of voltage sag towards the end of the ride. I can't be bothered to open it up to check the cell voltages so I'll charge it tomorrow to see if it charges up to the full voltage. If not I'll measure the individual cells. It's looking good so far - fingers crossed!

When I got back the single cell charger that I ordered on ebay had arrived:-

4.2V 7.2V 8.4V 12.6V 13.8V 16.8V 1A charger adapter 18650 Lithium Battery Li-ion | eBay

Output : 4.2V 7.2V 8.4V 12.6V 13.8V 16.8V - 1A optional. DC plug size : DC plug size : 5.5mm 2.5mm compatible 5.5mm 2.1mm. efficiency low energy consumption Cable : 100CM +/- 5%.

www.ebay.co.uk

I've measured the output with my multi-meter and it is an accurate 4.2v. so seems like good value. Just hope I don't need to use it often!

 

[Ghost1951]

Brilliant result.

Well done.

As the Americans say, 'Good job'.

Let us know what the end voltage of the pack is when you have charged it. I'm thinking it will likely be near enough 42 volts, or maybe 41.9.

Fingers crossed.

 

[Cadence]

Woo-hoo!
Charged the battery this morning and the charger light turned to green after about 2 hours. Measured the voltage at the discharge socket as soon as it turned green - a full 42 volts, so it seems to balance OK.
I will obviously need to keep closely monitoring it and on the rare occasions that I do a journey exceeding 30 miles I'll be taking my other battery with me as insurance.

Having bought another battery I am now in the nice but unexpected position of having two, but my usage is quite low (short rides of 3-8 miles about 6 -10 times per month). One is brand new and the other 21 months old.
How should I best manage them? Do I use them alternately? Should I run them down to say, 34 volts before charging? Before now I've always charged to full, then immediately done a short ride to give some "headroom" for a 10 minute charge if not used for a while - is this a good procedure?

I expect all these questions have been answered before, but searching the net seems to give conflicting information. I'd be grateful for some clarification from those with more experience.
Once again, many thanks to those who have given me guidance, I've learned a lot!

 

[thelarkbox]

fwiw in a similar position (very similar) having a 2nd 36v battery of unknown history (minus an isolating switch), Im using it in a simple a-b-a-b-a-b cycle with my 'original battery, letting each drop to 36ish v (when i feel the motor isn't giving as much as it did..( yeah vauge i know) before a recharge - with my low millage im charging circa 1x per week.

if anyone knows of a dual voltage kt controller that sits in a hailong battery base??? i can get a 48v battery into the cycle too

 

[Cadence]

if anyone knows of a dual voltage kt controller that sits in a hailong battery base??? i can get a 48v battery into the cycle too

I was browsing the TBK website last night. There is a controller that fits the HL1 base:-

10S/13S/14S 36V/48V 6Mosfets Sine Wave Controller for Hailong case 52pcs cells [Hialong 1 Case Controller] - $41.85 : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce

Zen Cart! 10S/13S/14S 36V/48V 6Mosfets Sine Wave Controller for Hailong case 52pcs cells [Hialong 1 Case Controller] - ★★★★★ 10S/13S/14S 36V/48V 6Mosfets Sine Wave Controller for Hailong case 52pcs cells 1--Rate Voltage:36V or 48V KT sine wave controller 2--Rated Current:7A,for 250W-350W...

topbikekit.com

It's unclear to me whether they are dual voltage. They offer 36v and 48v, versions, but the notes say that the "48V controller can work with the 13S-54.6V and 14S-58.8V battery".
Does this mean that the 36v. will also work with a 48v. battery I wonder?
It would be useful to know for if/when I decide to upgrade to 48v.

 

[thelarkbox]

I was browsing the TBK website last night. There is a controller that fits the HL1 base:-

10S/13S/14S 36V/48V 6Mosfets Sine Wave Controller for Hailong case 52pcs cells [Hialong 1 Case Controller] - $41.85 : Zen Cart!, The Art of E-commerce

Zen Cart! 10S/13S/14S 36V/48V 6Mosfets Sine Wave Controller for Hailong case 52pcs cells [Hialong 1 Case Controller] - ★★★★★ 10S/13S/14S 36V/48V 6Mosfets Sine Wave Controller for Hailong case 52pcs cells 1--Rate Voltage:36V or 48V KT sine wave controller 2--Rated Current:7A,for 250W-350W...

topbikekit.com

It's unclear to me whether they are dual voltage. They offer 36v and 48v, versions, but the notes say that the "48V controller can work with the 13S-54.6V and 14S-58.8V battery".
Does this mean that the 36v. will also work with a 48v. battery I wonder?
It would be useful to know for if/when I decide to upgrade to 48v.

Cheers.. that looks promising.. i feel the urge for a punt gonna sit on it for 24 hours just in case, had 2 big unexpected bills already this week (50 yr old boiler needed new parts!!- and we got em.. but fitting wasnt cheap!) and 2 x fillings at the dentist,, so the toy budget is a tad sad atm

I had spotted that myself but had dismissed it after seeing the voltage options in the combo box, thanks for reading further and enlightening me.