Haibike Xduro FS - First Impressions

eTim

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 19, 2009
607
2
Andover, Hants.
I've been waiting for an affordable full suspension electric mountain bike to come to the market for some time, I had my eye on the Biketec Swiss Flyer X series with the Panasonic system which I am sure are great bikes (not actually tested one), but they have been too expensive and dealer service a bit convoluted.

So when Haibike teamed with the new Bosch system to produce the Xduro full suspension at a much lower price point, then the decision to spend became much easier. Also, ever since I introduced my wife to my Cytronex road bikes, she has secretly been hoping I would splash out on something for her birthday (and provided me with the perfect excuse to buy), so on Wednesday last week I called James at LEV Justebikes.co.uk and purchased two bikes and the bikes were delivered yesterday (Sunday) by James, who is a very nice chap.

Wow! This is the same fun to be had on a FS mountain bike, but with an extra dollop of fun! If you ever pick-up a mountain bike magazine (I do rarely) then you'll notice a growing market of bike parks that have an 'uplift' system that will transport your bike to the top of the hill/mountain so that you can enjoy the downhill bits without the strain of having to ride up the hill again and again (and some people call electric bikes cheating, ha!). Well with the Xduro, there is no need for such an uplift system as it is included for free with the bike!

We went for a 30km test ride (20+Km off-road), setting off late afternoon, the route was in the North Hampshire Downs, a beautiful area of rolling hills, steep valleys, woods, ridgelines, roman roads, archealogical sites, no traffic, no people, chocolate box villages, tons of wildlife, idyllic and right on my doorstep. The aim was to visit Fosbury Ring Fosbury Camp Hillfort : The Megalithic Portal and Megalith Map: I have done this route before on my unpowered Marin Attack Trail FS and arrived home wasted, my wife has attempted this route before and only managed half the route because of the steepness and difficulty of some of the hills.

On the Xduro we both completed the route, having taken in the scenery, stopped for a sandwich and a pint, pedalled up some steep (20% in places) hills non-stop and raced (in my case) down the same hills, bikes and people made it back safely.

As we are still relatively young (30's and 40's) and want to increase our fitness levels, we didn't want the bikes to do all the work, so found a natural rythym on setting 2 Tour, with occasional forays into the other settings. Even on the steep uphills it was easy to maintain 10-12Km/hour whilst still putting in some legwork, higher settings meant less legwork, but we were happy with this as we wanted to feel like we were going for a mountain bike ride. We arrived home tired and pleased with the energy we had put into the ride, today (Monday) I can feel my legs and body aching from the exertion so I know we did enough but not too much to be too tired to get out of bed for work :(

The bike and electric drive system itself is solid, only rattles are from the front forks, which clatter like all suspension forks do when being bounced hard down rocky, rooty, ribbed, stony, bumpy hills, the bike feels like a quality mountain bike and is solid and sure footed, brakes are good. Suspension is very good, however mine does need some more air in the shock and forks which I'll pump in when I get the chance. As with all bikes of this type, personal tweaks to the setup are needed before a full impression can be gained. Front and rear suspension are fully adjustable for air, rebound and damping with a lockout for the forks (not sure about rear lockout yet).

Before riding this bike, I had only ridden the Panasonic crank drive on a short test ride, but I can say that the Bosch assistance is as smooth as silk at the lower power settings and takes off like a rocket at the highest. The ramp down at cutoff (25Km) appears to be smooth also. The drive matches leg input in a way that is very controllable, just what you need when offroad on a steep hill on loose rocks.

The bike arrived with 5 bars showing on the battery and had 2 remaining on mine and 3 on my wife's when we had finished the ride, so with similar riding I guess we could get around 50-60km range, which would be good for a 4-5 hour, cross-country, off-road, hilly day out. The computer tracked the usual bike related things and showed we had averaged 14km/hour. There is some electric motor whine present when underway which increases under load, but certainly nothing that annoyed me and wasn't unexpected. One aspect of the ride I found was that I felt actually forgot that I was riding an electric bike a couple of times and was just enjoying the ride, it was such a natural cycling experience, I think that is a good indicator of how this bike feels. The freewheel is excellent with no noticable drag from the motor, the weight of the bike is 2 or 3 kilos heavier than my Marin, so pedalling freewheel is just as much work, setting 1 eco (the lowest setting available) takes the sting out of pedalling the bike at low, easy cruising speed when on a slight incline.

As is typical with all electric bikes, the assistance encourages you to get out and ride more and I can see that our Xduro's will not be getting an easy ride this Summer! If you are in the market for an electrified full suspension moutain bike, then I don't think you will be disappointed with the Haibike/Bosch system.

No pics of the ride out, but here is the best one I can find of the bike....
http://wurstkoffer.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/haibike.jpg

PS if anyone wants to cycle in this wonderful part of the UK I can provide some pointers for routes (on or off road).

Tim.
 
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eTim

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 19, 2009
607
2
Andover, Hants.
The left hand crank problem experienced with the first batch of this bike appears to have been resolved and James assured me that my bikes have been delivered with the modification.
 

kitchenman

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 9, 2010
1,309
7
Aberaeron, West Wales
Sounds great! I hope you still cycled to work this morning! ..
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
Great stuff! I hope to try one this weekend....Not sure that the Trekking may be a better fit as unlikely to go off road:confused:

Notice the price has crept up......:(

Re the crank: still lots of chatter on German forum? replacement one is Black I think.....This is a generic Bosch problem and not a Hailbike specific one
 
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indalo

Banned
Sep 13, 2009
1,380
1
Herts & Spain
There is some electric motor whine present when underway which increases under load, but certainly nothing that annoyed me and wasn't unexpected.
Tim.
Aha! That's the first time I've heard any mention of noise with this new-fangled Bosch motor. I'm surprised at that as, if legally powered, I would not expect to hear noise from a brand new motor at such a high price point. We differ in view when you say the noise wasn't unexpected. I'd find any noise unacceptable. Perhaps it'll go away with time.

Indalo
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
It is pretty well known that this is not the quietest system around.....
 

eTim

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 19, 2009
607
2
Andover, Hants.
Sounds great! I hope you still cycled to work this morning! ..
Unfortunately work is now 75 miles away at the moment, which, even for me is a bit out of my range!!

Re the crank: still lots of chatter on German forum? replacement one is Black I think.....This is a generic Bosch problem and not a Hailbike specific one
Ours are supplied with the black cranks :)

We differ in view when you say the noise wasn't unexpected. I'd find any noise unacceptable. Perhaps it'll go away with time.

Indalo
I'm sure Bosch will improve on this, maybe on the Mk2, trouble with being a first adopter is not everything is perfect and therefore I'm prepared to put up with some minor niggles. I say it wasn't unexpected because I'd read comments in the German forum about noise. For me it is not intrusive when compared to the sound of trees, wind, tyres, click of the wheel and other general cycling noises, but of course this is subjective, just as is the colour of the bike, I would have preferred anything but white, ho-hum :rolleyes:
 

eTim

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 19, 2009
607
2
Andover, Hants.
Great stuff! I hope to try one this weekend....Not sure that the Trekking may be a better fit as unlikely to go off road:confused:
If you are not planning any long bumpy downhills or fast cross country riding over bumpy, rocky ground then you won't need the rear suspension, that's what it's really for. The trekking has front suspension and therefore should be as easily capable as any other hardtail for milder off-roading* (assuming the frame and other components are off-road capable).

*Hard-tail mountain bikes are just as capable off-road as full suspension, there are slightly different techniques for riding and FS can be faster in some circumstances, e.g. bumpy ground where the bike will fly over the ground. Hardtail is usually more efficient for climbing, there are too many factors involved here, go with whatever your budget will expand to and what you need/like.
 
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eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
Most will be concerned with range of battery. what would you guesstimate the range would be for normal road riding with a decent amount of input...I know this is subjective, but If bike cant manage 30 miles + on medium/high power I would be a bit disapointed....
 

eTim

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 19, 2009
607
2
Andover, Hants.
Most will be concerned with range of battery. what would you guesstimate the range would be for normal road riding with a decent amount of input...I know this is subjective, but If bike cant manage 30 miles + on medium/high power I would be a bit disapointed....
Difficult to guesstimate at this stage given I've only ridden the bike once, mainly off-road. And as you will already know there are many, many factors that can influence range, but if I must....

With 'slick' MTB tyres, flat terrain, Power setting 3 Speed, chin on the bars, elbows in, no wind, 21 degrees, max leg input and travelling at 25km's/hour.........up to 50km's is my guesstimate.

Given that my route was nothing like a 'normal' road ride yesterday, I had used approx 1/2 the battery over 30Km's, so 50km's might not be too far out on full power with no hills, maybe more given that you would be travelling at near to max assist and therefore the motor would have ramped down.

I'll try to do some later this week, I think it's an efficient motor though.

Sorry it's all in Kilometers, it's a European bike!!
 
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eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
"I think it's an efficient motor though"

That is good, and the impression I get from chatter in Germany. but they ar nearly all hardcore mountain types and I guesstimate pretty fit to begin with lol:)
 

eTim

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 19, 2009
607
2
Andover, Hants.
but they ar nearly all hardcore mountain types and I guesstimate pretty fit to begin with lol:)
I agree with this and would class myself as almost hardcore as I like to run my MTB's reasonably hard (that's what they are for after all), my Xduro will not be as cosseted as my Cytronex's ! However I would'nt class my wife as hardcore (slower on the technical bits due to female fear factor) but she was keeping up with me pretty well which she could never do on an unpowered bike and she was loving every minute of it, that kind of stuff is priceless!

Whilst on the subject of speed, I should add that I was doing 57kph downhill on the road at one point yesterday and I could easily pedal at around 35kph on the flat without too much trouble, if I swapped my tyres for MTB slicks I could go faster which is good for off-road this time of year (hard packed ground) and road riding for commuting and bouncing up and down kerbs etc
 
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banbury frank

Banned
Jan 13, 2011
1,565
5
Hi eTim

I think what you and your wife are doing is Fantastic :rolleyes:

Keep up the good work and convert others away from those NASTY petrol things

If we can get rid off some off those 30 million cars off the road this country will be better off

Frank:cool:
 

eTim

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 19, 2009
607
2
Andover, Hants.
Hi eTim

I think what you and your wife are doing is Fantastic :rolleyes:

Keep up the good work and convert others away from those NASTY petrol things

If we can get rid off some off those 30 million cars off the road this country will be better off

Frank:cool:
Thanks Frank, it would be great to reduce the number of cars on the roads, unfortunately I don't think this will happen anytime soon even when the price of oil based fuel is prohibitive, my guess is the car will still be around running on hydrogen or electric!
 

eTim

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 19, 2009
607
2
Andover, Hants.
Some more info I have gleaned from the manual now I've had a chance to read it:

The power delivery system is actually provided in 11 steps (12 if you include off), ranging from 30% to 250% assistance using the control panel, it will take some effort to work out which combination of level indicator and mode will equate to which assistance level though, they could have made this simpler.

The manual states that the max range on the lowest setting (power 1 eco) could be 145Km given ideal conditions. If that is possible on a 288Wh battery then that's remarkable!
 

bonefishtone

Just Joined
May 17, 2011
3
0
I am also a owner of a Haibike Xduro, and James delivered mine to me on Sunday as well as to Edie.
I had been searching for a electric bike that i could ride around the miles of green lanes in this part of North Hertfordshire where i live.I found this bike on the off chance by googling electric mountain bike.
I visited James,s smart shop in Leiston,Suffolk at a rather late 6pm one evening 2 weeks ago and he graciously stayed open so i could have a play.As soon as i saw the bike i knew it was for me.He suggested i rode down the main highstreet and after few hundred yards ther was an area of rough ground where kids had set up a little wooden bike jump and there is a old dried up pond it was great fun tearing around. By the end of my test i was doing stoppies and attempting wheelies! I have never owned a proper mountain bike before and am not a cyclist but have ridden motorcycles for a number of years,In fact the idea of hard old pedaling fills me with fear!
I am 15 plus stone and 55 years young.This bike, in the 6 kms i have ridden it (it has a readout for distance etc) is fantastic,i have been jumping it over grass banks, up and down kerbs,slopes,bumpy tracks,pot holes and any other rough ground i can find, and thats just outside my office,in some ways its like a Trials motorcycle and you can balance it through sections,or ride it incredibly slowly whilst navigating tight bends around large stones or down hills and then get up the other side,easily,its truly remarkable.
Anyway James handed me over the bike and it quickly became apparent that the rear suspension and the front forks did not have enough air.The rear having 80psi, has 180 psi in it now and i seem to be useing 85% of its travel so it may have to go up a bit more if i start doing some higher jumps off walls or steps etc. The front was a little soft as well but now have 120psi in which seems ok so far, its all new to me as i have never had a bike before with adjustable suspension as my motorcycles are classic 1970,s Minor niggle here there is not a instuction book on setting your suspension up and i expected there to be a table of settings to give a layman a idea of what to do,weight v psi etc, but i suppose its simply trial and error or maybe the manufacturer thinks anyone buying this type of bike is up to speed on settings etc.
This in my view is a surprisingly light and very well made electric bike with excellent finish and good attension to detail,i have no experiance with this sort of product but am pretty sure it will give me years and miles of fun,i have no doubt about its durability and think it will stand up to ham fisted punishment that i will give it, anyway if i damage it i have total confidence in James from Justebikes to sort it out.I will give some update when i have been up to the woods and properly tested it in the dell hole, In the meantime if any of you are thinking about one of these you must give it a go but watch out it doesnt turn you into a hooligan its addictive!
 

eTim

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 19, 2009
607
2
Andover, Hants.

bonefishtone

Just Joined
May 17, 2011
3
0
Thanks for the links Tim,they are very helpfull.

The 2 manuals that came with the bike seem to be if you are building a bike from parts and how to fit them as opposed to setting the shocks up,but there must be so many variables the manufacturers could not provide the info.The owners bike manual is in German but to be fair does not have any info in it about the Xduro which is a shame, the Bosche handbook is in English, along with the gear and brakes leaflet,I will just have to experiment with the psi. With regard to the rebound once its set up do you just leave it alone, or on different terrains should i adjust it,as a bridal path or lane which is flatish or may have some ruts, is different from going off steps,or banks or is it just a compromise until you find a happy medium?
 

eTim

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 19, 2009
607
2
Andover, Hants.
Thanks for the links Tim,they are very helpfull.

The 2 manuals that came with the bike seem to be if you are building a bike from parts and how to fit them as opposed to setting the shocks up,but there must be so many variables the manufacturers could not provide the info.The owners bike manual is in German but to be fair does not have any info in it about the Xduro which is a shame, the Bosche handbook is in English, along with the gear and brakes leaflet,I will just have to experiment with the psi. With regard to the rebound once its set up do you just leave it alone, or on different terrains should i adjust it,as a bridal path or lane which is flatish or may have some ruts, is different from going off steps,or banks or is it just a compromise until you find a happy medium?
I didn't receive a manual for this shock either, but I've found the full user manual for it at the following link:

http://www.sram.com/_media/techdocs/08%20User%20Manual%20-%20Monarch.pdf

Setting up the shock is a matter of personal preference and terrain/style of riding. So setting it for big hits will probably mean different air pressures etc than for trail riding over bumpy ground and different again for road/easy trail riding.

The main setting is sag (preload) and setting the sag for this shock is easy as there are marked percentage gradients on the shock itself. My technique is to roll the rubber band marker up to the shock, then fully sit on the bike (support yourself against a wall or have someone support you) then dismount all the while being careful not to bounce on the bike. Then check where the band sits, a starter position is recommended to be between 25-30% sag, then add or reduce air pressure until it is at the desired percentage. I checked mine last night and it was greater than 30%, the bike was delivered with pressure of 150psi, so I pumped the shock to 220psi (max pressure is 275psi as indicated on the shock) and it now sits around 27% sag, I weigh 90Kg.

Once sag is set then the advice is to open rebound and damping fully and start to reduce rebound to a desired level and only fiddle with damping if needed. Time on the bike is the only way you will know these settings as it cannot be done statically. From my knowledge of motorbike setups, setting up suspension can be a bit of a black art, if you are really fussy, you should consult a professional to help :) Personally I set it up and if it feels OK then I leave it and just check the pressure periodically.

The same principles should also apply to the front forks (I haven't got around to sorting mine out yet).

Hope this helps.
 
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