Haibike sDuro HardSeven SL 2015 Yamaha (7 Month 1600 Miles)

[soundwave]

my bikes rrp was £5500 and i still broke it ,well the xd hub anyway but crank bros gave me a new one for free.

no bolts had any lock tight on them so all 4 of the rear horse link bolts could come loose and fall off which they did on other bikes so lock tight them with cable tie in each just in case as there 40 fkn quid each.

the main pivot bolt came loose and i lost it and cost 25 quid for a new one now + lock tight not moved since.

tyres was thin as hell so went tubeless and changed both tyres as well.

new saddle
new handle bars
new grips
changed both rotors 2 203mm
changed stem to a flat short one
got rid of all qr leavers

it was ok after that tho

 

[tisme]

I've not had any chain last more than 700 miles on any e bike no matter what quality

 

[John G]

I've not had any chain last more than 700 miles on any e bike no matter what quality

I must have done over 700 miles on the KMC X9e chain I bought. As I said, I accepted chain replacement was a wear and tear item, so I didn't try to claim.

Having said that, surely ebike designers need to consider beefing up the drivechain components. The e motor can put a massive torque into the system. I learned quickly to avoid changing gear when the chain was under a lot of load.

 

[soundwave]

I must have done over 700 miles on the KMC X9e chain I bought. As I said, I accepted chain replacement was a wear and tear item, so I didn't try to claim.

Having said that, surely ebike designers need to consider beefing up the drivechain components. The e motor can put a massive torque into the system. I learned quickly to avoid changing gear when the chain was under a lot of load.

they did with the sram ex1 but it is a 350 cassette tho mine was same price when new but still life left in mine with 3000 plus on the clock.

on my 3rd chain so far since i had it but dont change under load as it really dont like it going 30mph lol

also keep it super clean and lubed up every ride as helps keep wear down.

 

[John G]

Just noticed the KMC X9e chain is heavily discounted at the moment, at CRC.
Bought two as spares lol.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/kmc-x9e-hp-ebike-9-speed-chain/rp-prod120637

 

[soundwave]

i have 11spd so cost a bit more for the lighter one anyway.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/sram-xx1-hollowpin-11-speed-chain/rp-prod91008

then add this
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/sram-x01-xg1195-11-speed-mtb-cassette/rp-prod109099

=

 

[John G]

Wow that's a very expensive cassette. A friend recommended a Shimano XT cassette as a replacement, and it seems very good.

Silly me, I thought biking would be a cheap hobby after I'd bought the bike, lol.

 

[Trevormonty]

Middrives are hard on drivechains, eMTB even more so. I'm getting about 1000km out of kmc e11 11spd chains. €25 each +€8 for Bosch chainring ( replace every chain). Still experimenting with cassette €45 life either 1 per 2 or 3 chains. Add set derailluer idler wheels every cassettee (€10 for XT).

About €50-60 every 1000kms. This doesn't include shipping charges, brake pads, lubs cleaners etc and tyres. Annual services on FS suspension plus suspension pivot point kits. €150-200 every 1000kms is not unrealistic and this is with internet shopping. Double or triple those part prices if purchased from LBS.
I'm doing most of servicing, use shop for suspension and pivot point replacements.

Hard tails with 9spd drive trains are cheap in comparsion. Wife's 9spd middrive commuter does 2500km on €15 chain plus odd €5 brake pads and thats it.

 

[georgehenry]

I cannot disagree that mid drive systems add more wear and tear to the drive train, (chain, rear cassette and chain ring).

All that is worth it however when you take them off road.

The Yamaha motor perhaps because it does not have soft wear to reduce the power when you change gear can be harder on the drive train than the Bosch.

When I first got mine I damaged a cog in the rear cassette changing gear under power cresting a hill on the road on my second trip back from work and changed both the chain and the rear cassette.

As I carry circa 10kg using a rack and Ortleib panniers and am no light weight myself (100kg+), I also had a stronger replacement rear wheel made based on a mavic rim.

By a bit of trail and error and pounding too and from work I have found for me that increasing the gearing (42 tooth chainring with 36/12 cheap ish Shimano Alvio HG400 9 speed rear cassette £19 including postage on ebay) gives me much better longevity on my de-restricted bike.

This seems to be the ideal gearing for me to give me a bottom gear that can still climb the steepest sections of my off road route to work and higher gearing for faster speeds on the road.

I had not realised that there is an even wider ratio 9 speed cassette available, the sunrace 11/40 so my experimentation might not be over!

Though I accept this is a crude solution, it is cheap and works. The higher gearing means that you are in a cog with more teeth when travelling at higher speed on the road and more teeth resist wear much better.

Previously it was always the 11 tooth top gear that gave trouble first and failed before the chain and chain ring.

My last chain, chain ring and cassette all wore out together at an impressive 2200 miles, the highest mileage before replacement I have managed.

I also do a far chunk of those miles off road where everything wears quicker.

However on the road I am very careful to back off when changing gear and only use eco in my 12 tooth top gear and very sparingly standard power to crest/maintain speed over the top/up a couple of hills in gear 8 on my road trip home.

My 12 tooth top gear (42 tooth chainring) on a level gradient on the road in eco with me adding plenty of effort myself will maintain 21 to 23 mph.

I managed 29 minutes for my 10 mile journey home on the road the other night using 35% of my battery by putting in plenty of effort myself and using mostly eco a bit of standard for steeper uphills and off for steeper downhills.

I think the bikes will improve as the market expands with ebike specific transmission parts but at the moment we have the combination of more power than an normal bike going through a bicycle transmission that struggles to cope.

Nothing is cheap these days and bike bits are no exception. However a 9 speed set up is much cheaper to replace bits on than 10/11 speed ones.

You could also argue that extra power means that you do not need as many gears as long as you have a low enough one for the hills you climb off road.

That sunrace cassette might allow me to up gear my bike more with that 40 tooth bottom gear to turn my bike realistically into a 8 or even 7 speed bike with one/two overdrive top gears and allow me to use higher power levels at faster speeds on the road in a cog with 15 teeth (gear 7 of 9) to up my average speed for my 10 mile road trip home from work from just over 20 miles an hour that I manage at the moment to perhaps approach 25mph, though i would be working by battery a lot harder.

It might be fun to try.

However the gearing I use now seems to work really well.

I paid £1750 for my bike and have traveled 8026 miles as of my return trip from work on Thursday and two 20/26 mile round trips saves me a gallon of fuel/wear and tear in the car and provides me with a lot of fun and exercise.

It could be said that bikes are not designed to do these sorts of regular mileages really and you do have to keep maintaining them, though it is really the transmission, tyres and brake pads that account for the bulk of my expense. I changed the saddle and added a stronger rear wheel but everything else is as I bought it.

My rear hub was changed when I last changed the transmission on the 14th of November 2017. It felt a lot better after it had been done!

I had a new motor fitted at 6000 miles free of charge under warranty just beyond the two year warranty period by the bike shop I bought it from. (Ebike shop Farnham) when the main bearing developed too much play.

 

[Emo Rider]

Good to hear your Haibike Sduros are still performing well. I bought my Haibike Sduro Hardseven 4.0 from Evans at the end of May 2017. I've been very happy with the bike, doing over 1300 miles on local lanes and various forest tracks and bridleways in North Wales.

I've been less happy with the the number of components I've had to replace on the bike at my own cost, and with hindsight I do think Haibike have used some components which were unsuitable for an e mountain bike.

Had to replace the chain and rear cassette after 600 miles, because gears started to slip when climbing. I checked chain with a measuring tool and it was past the acceptable wear limit. The chain provided was a KMC X9 chain. I replaced it with a KMC X9e chain which as the e suggests, is a stronger chain for ebike use. The basic SRAM cassette was fairly worn as well, so I replaced it with a better Shimano XT cassette. I didn't ask Evans to replace these, but 5 months usage on a new bike is pretty shocking.

The Suntour SR forks provided weren't very nice on bumpy forest roads, so I replaced them with some Manitou Marvel air forks which vastly improved the ride.

Just before Christmas I noticed a wobble in the rear wheel. The LBS has a look and said the rear hub had failed, letting in water and allowing the bearings and axle to rust. He cleaned and regreased them but basically it was knackered. I took it to Evans and asked for a warranty repair. Haibike, who I learned are owned by Raleigh, did not accept it as a warranty repair.

They are probably correct under the terms of the warranty, but I do question if the components they have used are fit for purpose if they are failing so quickly. The electric motor puts a very high torque through the drivetrain, so it seems fairly obvious that cheap bottom end normal bike components won't last. I've researched bike hubs on the internet and the XLC rear hub is a really cheap as chips item, with no waterproof seal. So are we supposed to avoid using bikes in wet conditions? Before you ask, I did not pressure wash the bike.

I've now invested in a better set of wheels (from Just Riding Along in York) as I dont want to be replacing cheap hubs every 6 months.

I can't be bothered writing to Raleigh or Haibike, but I'll say in public that after spending around £2000 on a bike I don't expect it to start wearing out and falling apart after 6 months.

I'll look elsewhere next time.

I am approaching 3,000 miles on my 2015 Haibike Trekking. It has the original 10 spd chain and gears. I am over 16 stone and use it in hilly country conditions. However, it has not seen any extreme mtb conditions. It sounds like the 5.0 model would have better suited your needs. In the big scheme of things. 9spd parts are much cheaper than 10 spd so it probably evens out over the long run.

 

[John G]

Some very interesting feedback. The following made me laugh

 

[RobF]

I'm not convinced legal crank ebikes put more strain on the drivetrain in comparison to a fit rider - which any drivetrain will be designed to handle.

Put another way, me + Bosch ebike motor = about the same amout of strain on the drivetrain as a fit pusbike cyclist.

As ever, riders report differing mileages from transmission componets.

My Rose hub gear Bosch bike did 6.000-odd miles on the orignal chain, which was still working fine when I sold it.

Proper off-roading and derailer gears will inevitably wear a chain/cassette faster, but I'm still baffled how a rider can wear out those componets in a few hundred miles.

Particularly JohnG, who it appears isn't doing a lot more than riding on dirt tracks.

 

[John G]

Living in North Wales there are lots of hills! I have been out a couple of times into the Clwydian hills with my son and going up steep hills the ebike is much quicker than his Cannondale. The fact I am climbing faster surely means I am putting more torque and hence more load into the chain and cassette?

The photo below shows the biggest climb I did, from the bottom of the valley up about 800'.

 

[RobF]

I agree, your bike is taking more torque than the lad's when you outclimb him.

When I said fit rider, I meant someone who maybe competes at a decent level or even a pro - everyone is using the same transmission bits, give or take.

The transmission load from a pro sprinter going for the line is enormous, far more than a legal ebike could come close to.

But you don't see Mark Cavendish falling off because his chain has snapped or jumped on the cassette.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I agree, your bike is taking more torque than the lad's when you outclimb him.

When I said fit rider, I meant someone who maybe competes at a decent level or even a pro - everyone is using the same transmission bits, give or take.

The transmission load from a pro sprinter going for the line is enormous, far more than a legal ebike could come close to.

But you don't see Mark Cavendish falling off because his chain has snapped or jumped on the cassette.

He is at about 1.2kW for a few seconds! But his chain is changed every day (220 odd km on the TdF) and probably the cassette too.

The chain on the GSM sees a lot of sand and salty air and is still fine after 2000+ km. It has certainly done a lot of climbing!

 

[georgehenry]

That's a lovely picture John G. Super place to ride.

My problems with premature wearing out of cassette using the Yamaha PW motor related only to the top gear higher speed road use, 11 tooth sprocket.

Although 56 I am a big lad and was a county sprinter back in the day and still have strong legs. Whether that is relevant or not the combination of me pushing hard and standard rather than eco setting in top gear on the road would quickly lead to annoying premature jumping in top gear and the need to replace the whole cassette.

My Bodge that works on my de-restricted bike is a larger front chain ring (42) and a wide ish cheap rear cassette 12/36.

I also as I have said am very careful to back off when changing gear and only use eco in my 12 tooth top gear and very sparingly standard power to crest/maintain speed over the top of a couple of hills in gear 8 on my road trip home.

My last chain, chain ring and cassette all wore out together at for me a perfectly acceptable 2200 miles, the highest mileage before replacement I have managed.

I often travel to work using a proper in places challenging off road route of 12 to 18 miles which is going to be harder on the drive train.

There may be something about the Yamaha motor and soft wear that contributes to this premature wear but the way I now use my bike now has solved the problem.

The Bosch motor seems anecdotally kinder to cassettes.

 

[anotherkiwi]

https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/shimano-sprocket-11t-with-spacer-for-cs-m771-10-bl-162017

Why buy a cassette?

 

[georgehenry]

Thanks anotherkiwi.

Do you have a link for a 12 tooth cog with spacer.

It would be useful to buy them separately although the cassette I bought recently from ebay was £19 including postage and one cog from that website would be 9.47 euros, though still a good saving if it extends the life of an otherwise good condition cassette.

Can you tell whether those sprockets are compatible with the Shimano Alvio HG400 9 speed cassettes I use.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I'll tell you a dirty little secret...

I bought one and am using it on a 12-32 cassette in place of the 12 tooth high gear, and... It is a 10 speed cog on a 7 speed cassette... 2000+ km and so far so good. Maybe a little fidley to change up to at times. I even ran unrestricted for a while and it handled 45 km/h like a champ.

The only 12 teeth ones I saw are for 11-32 so second highest gear, you wouldn't be able to use because there are no bumps to block the lock ring on the outside.

You could buy a half dozen 11 teeth ones and shipping would still be the same so the unit price would come down quite a bit. If you aren't wearing out the other cogs it could be worth a gamble.

 

[Altop1]

Hi im getting a bit of chain slip on my hard seven but have just had a new chain ring fitted using old chain and cassete. Could it be a case of things need to bed together. Bikes done about 1100 miles .cheers.