Haibike sDuro HardSeven SL 2015 Yamaha (7 Month 1600 Miles)

[georgehenry]

If I continue to get approaching 2200 miles or 3548 km out of my transmission including lots of off road miles before I need to change it I will not be at all unhappy.

I just have to be disciplined and ride the bike in the way I have described above. Riding the way I do I can still average over 20 miles an hour for my 10 mile road ride home which is fast enough for me.

 

[Trevormonty]

Hi im getting a bit of chain slip on my hard seven but have just had a new chain ring fitted using old chain and cassete. Could it be a case of things need to bed together. Bikes done about 1100 miles .cheers.

Changing chain on its own is OK, except for Bosch when new chainring is recommended as well. Best to fit new chainring and cassettes + derailleur idlers with new chain.
If you fit new chainring or cassette to worn chain, the chain will wear them out quicker.

 

[Trevormonty]

We need measured wear life of chain ie mileage till it hits 0.75 mark. This could be 1000miles but chain may not cause any problems till 3000miles, well past its recommend use by date.

 

[georgehenry]

In my pre electric days i did go through a phase of religiously changing my chain on my Mountain bike before it went over the wear limit as can be a recommended approach.

It quickly became somewhat tiresome and I returned to leaving the whole transmission to age together and change it when the chain started to jump.

I found this worked better for me but I can understand why those of a more sympathetic mechanical disposition would go the other route.

I do appreciate that the milages I mention above are obtained by my approach of only changing things when the chain starts to jump.

 

[John G]

Good to hear your Haibike Sduros are still performing well. I bought my Haibike Sduro Hardseven 4.0 from Evans at the end of May 2017. I've been very happy with the bike, doing over 1300 miles on local lanes and various forest tracks and bridleways in North Wales.

I've been less happy with the the number of components I've had to replace on the bike at my own cost, and with hindsight I do think Haibike have used some components which were unsuitable for an e mountain bike.

Had to replace the chain and rear cassette after 600 miles, because gears started to slip when climbing. I checked chain with a measuring tool and it was past the acceptable wear limit. The chain provided was a KMC X9 chain. I replaced it with a KMC X9e chain which as the e suggests, is a stronger chain for ebike use. The basic SRAM cassette was fairly worn as well, so I replaced it with a better Shimano XT cassette. I didn't ask Evans to replace these, but 5 months usage on a new bike is pretty shocking.

Quick update on chain wear.

The replacement KMC X9e chain is showing 75% wear, after doing an estimated 900 miles. So that's 50% better than the original X9 chain. It isn't slipping at the moment, but I guess I won't get many more miles out of it.

Still not great, and the X9e chain is about twice the price of an X9 chain, so not really worth the extra cost.

Current prices at CRC are

X9 £8.99

X9e £17.94

 

[georgehenry]

I appreciate it might seem a slightly slap dash approach but you may well find that the chain will continue to work without slipping or jumping for more miles than you imagine.

If the chain does not jump and you can push as hard as you want on the pedals then from my perspective the chain is doing its job.

Rather than change chains at their wear limit now I let the whole transmission wear out together and last time around that was 2200 miles

The problem I encountered initially on my Haibike Yamaha was that the top gear on my cassette (11 tooth) wore out very prematurely when I first started commuting on it.

Higher gearing, care changing gear and using less power in top gear has restored acceptable longevity.

The chain, chain ring and rear cassette I am using currently was changed on 24/11/17 and is consequently having to deal with a lot of wet and muddy winter conditions and may not do as many miles as the last set. It is up to 532 miles currently.

 

[georgehenry]

Haibike sDuro HardSeven SL 2015 Yamaha 3 Year update

Annual update now that the bike will be three years old on the 22nd of March 2018. As of my return trip from work last night I have covered 8592 miles with 2592 on the new motor. The previous motor was replaced under warranty at 6000 miles just after two years use.



Chain, Chainring, Cassette, wear and tear

I do get quite a variable milage out of my chain, chain ring and rear cassette as I have previously mentioned.

The transmission previous to the 24th of November 2016 lasted 1246 miles.

On 24th of November 2016 I put a new transmission on that turned out to be a record breaker in terms of miles covered and time lasted before it needed changing, lasting almost a year to the 13th of November 2017 and 2220 miles.

A New Chain, chain ring and rear cassette was duly fitted coming into service on the 17th of November 2017 but that one wore out in double quick time after just 776 miles on the 24th of February 2018 after just three months, although wet muddy winter months and with a little less cleaning and care than I have done previously.

Although with a 9 speed transmission the cost is not absorbent. The 42 tooth chainring that I use cost a particularly reasonable £15 off ebay in the short lasting example above with a cassette usually around £20 delivered and a KMC chain.

I have this time replaced the chainring with a garbaruk 42 tooth narrow wide chainring that I have to say looks wonderfully engineered and very pretty and is supposed to do away with the need for a chain guide and stop the chain coming off the front chainring in all circumstances. I only ever had chains coming off the front chainrings previously very occasionally or when the chian cassette and chain ring were approaching the end of their lives but it was always annoying and I will see if the narrow wide one keeps the chain on better.

The disparity in how long my transmissions last is a bit confusing as I use the same rear Shimano cassette and KMC chain each time.




Other bits and bobs that needed replacing

I noticed a bit of play in the rear wheel and replaced the wheel bearings as well on the 24th of Feb 18.

The hub body of the rear wheel was dismantled and replaced alongside other worn out bits on the 17th of February 2017 and the rear wheel felt a lot better afterwards.



Tyres

My tyres have now covered 3038 miles since I put them on, on 5th January 2017. They are Specialized Crossroads Armadillo 650B 27.6” Wired Clincher Tyres in 1.9” width. They are very tough and look like they can last a lot longer. More wear apparent on the rear than the front as you would expect. Fantastic protection and no punctures.

They are a classic compromise and more road orientated than I would like but with the miles I do on the road mountain bike tyres would wear out in no time and after getting used to them I have learnt that they are more effective than I had first thought they would be off road.



Battery

My battery still soldiers on with very little obvious sign of losing capacity although it must be. In the very cold weather I did see it drop to a low of 58% remaining on my fast 10 mile road trip home. On the road trip home I am aiming to cover those 10 miles in around 30 minutes at an average speed of up to 20 miles an hour +or- a bit and to do so need to use the middle standard higher power setting to climb the steeper hills quicker or maintain speed over the crest of longer hills without slowing down too much, otherwise I use eco for the level slightly up slightly down sections and off for the steeper descents.

Brakes

The Tektro brakes just require brake pads as and when and continue to work really well with no fuss or other more major adjustment.

Hopefully roll on the next 12 months of exercise and fun. The pictures are from a sunny ride to work on the 19th of January 2018. I feel I am beginning to get a smidgen of value out of my £1750 initial purchase cost now.

 

[georgehenry]

Today is the actual third year anniversary of ownership of my Haibike sDuro HardSeven

So it’s,

Happy Birthday to You,

Happy Birthday to You,

Happy Birthday dear Haibike, £1750, 8718 miles, original battery, second motor replaced under warranty, and various other wear and tear bits and bobs,

Happy Birthday to You.

Special mention to Martin at e-bikeshop Farnham and his team who I bought the bike from and who have provided truly excellent customer service on the relatively few occasions it has been required.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

This is an excellent review. Keep up the good work. I look forward to the next instalment.

 

[georgehenry]

Just a post script to the chain, chain ring and rear cassette that wore out in 776 miles and 3 months from 17th of November 2017 to the 24th of February 2018.

Although it was a wet, muddy period where I did a little less cleaning and care than ideal I now realise that there was an issue with the rear mech where it had been very slightly bent leading to some hunting between gears and jumping out of gear. So although you could index the system the slightly bent rear mech meant that it did not change as it should. I think this probably was the main reason for the premature failure although the winter conditions probably did not help.

 

[Phil electric]

Bike bought 20th March 2015

Haibike sDuro HardSeven SL 2015 Yamaha,

7 Month Review, Commuter Special

I have now covered around 1600 miles on my sDuro HardSeven.

Part of my route to workView attachment 12738

What I wanted to achieve

When I bought the bike I wanted primarily a bike to ride to work on as often as possible, leaving my car at home as much as possible on a bike that could cope with a mainly off road route of between 12 and 14 miles to work and then get me home as quickly as possible on a hilly 10 mile B Road route.

To complicate matters I need to carry quite a bit of stuff to work and prefer to use a rear rack and panniers to do so. The tracks I use are too rough for the trekking style bikes so my choice was quickly reducing. I looked at a lot of bikes but in the end decided I needed a hard tail electric mountain bike that I could fit a rack to.

After a lot of research I found myself returning to the e-bikeshop site and focusing on the Haibike sDuro and xDuro HardSeven. I rang Martin the owner who was very helpful, and reassured me that they could fit racks to either bike and said I should come to the shop and try them out. In the end I attended the demo day and was able to ride both the yamaha and bosch systems on great tracks and meet some really friendly like-minded people.

After that I arranged to meet Martin at his shop in Farnham where I could see the whole range of bikes and make up my mind in a relaxed way. Martin also suggested a set of Moon lights that have proved to be excellent and fitted some Schwalbe Smart Sam plus puncture resistant tyres and slime filled tubes to avoid as many punctures as possible as a puncture when you have to be at work is no fun.

The Yamaha Motor

As other people have noted The Yamaha motor is a gem. The zero cadence works brilliantly off road and means it responds immediately to your input on the pedals and the torque of the motor will pull you up and over anything you aim it at. It will try and engage with any weight on the pedal and if you are at a road junction or set of lights I sometimes switch the assist off while I am waiting and back on again when it is time to set off. Either that or just take your feet off the pedals or un-weight the pedals.

Riding The Bike

I have now been riding the bike to and from work for seven months throughout the summer and hardly had to use the car at all. The off road route to work is a sheer pleasure and I have added more demanding tracks knowing that the bike can cope. I actually want the exercise and now predominantly only use the eco mode on the 13 mile off road route to work but know the bike can pick up the pace and fly at the push of a button. However even in eco mode the bike can still hit 20+ miles an hour for plenty of off road fun as the gentle power just keeps pushing without cutting out.

Getting home fast is also a pleasure. I use the second standard level of assistance and never use the highest assistance level even on the steep hills and turn the motor off on descents. The Moon lights mean that I can see where I am going now! The 9 speed gearing has a sweet spot for cruising around 20/22 miles an hour. Obviously the speed drops on the steeper hills and you just drop down through the gears until you find the best one for the effort you want to add to the pedals and the gradient you are climbing. However I still find myself climbing some long more gentle hills at an indicated 20mph. Even a fairly steep long hill is dispatched at 12/14 miles an hour. On the steepest hill my speed drops down to around 10 mph. Momentum is quickly regained when you crest the hill. With a crank motored bike you have to pedal and whatever the setting you end up exercising, which for me is a benefit not a curse.

Using eco on my 12/13 mile mostly off road ride to work I have about 62% battery left when I arrive at work. Blasting the 10 miles home on my hilly B Road at 20+ miles an hour in standard I have about 52% battery left when I get home. I top my battery up at work and am a 17 stone + guy with two loaded panniers.

I did manage 30 miles on a fun mostly off road leisure ride including lots of very challenging hill climbs and by managing the way I rode the bike found the controller telling me I was about to deplete the battery 200 yards from home.

After 7 months I have so far seen no noticeable degradation in the battery. I look after my battery by bringing it into the house after every ride and charging it if I am going to use the bike the next day. If I am not going to use the bike for a number of days it will have over 50% remaining after my ride home from work and I store it without topping it back up in a warm dry cupboard and then charge it up again on the day I next ride.

I was worried about spokes breaking in the back wheel being a heavy guy and carrying panniers but actually wrote off my rear wheel and rear mech after only a few weeks riding when a tree branch jammed in the rear spokes, so I cannot say whether the original rear wheel would have coped with the weight it was carrying as the miles increased. Martin made me up a strong back wheel based on a mavic rim that has so far taken everything that I have thrown at it. The beauty of a crank drive is that if you need a stronger rear wheel you can just build one up and slot it in.

A disadvantage of a powerful crank drive system is that it puts quite a strain on your cassette, chain and front sprocket. I would advise changing gear as gently as you can. I read Anthony Flemings excellent review and did find that I also damaged the original rear cassette by unsympathetically changing gear on a steep hill under full load. The system does interrupt power as you change gear but I would still recommend taking a gentle approach to changing gear. I followed Anthony’s advise and fitted a cheap £10 rear cassette from chain reaction Shimano Alivio HG400 9 Speed MTB CassetteSilver, 11-34t - sku431310 that has for me proved more durable than the original although I made sure my gears were perfectly indexed after it was fitted. The rack Martin fitted is working well in combination with my Ortlieb Panniers although for my own peace of mind I replaced the standard fitting bolts with much stronger ones that I sourced from the excellent Margnor Fasteners Ltd near Guildford.

Like any new bike you will probably want to put a more comfortable seat on and I have found the Velo Inclined Men's Plush Men's Saddle – Black sourced from Amazon the most comfortable saddle I have ever used and have now put this saddle on my other bikes.

The Smart Sam Plus Tyres with slime filled tubes have not punctured.

How do slime filled tyres work please?

 

[soundwave]

How do slime filled tyres work please?

slime tubes
https://www.rutlandcycling.com/components/tubes/slime-presta-inner-tube-700c_104906?origin=pla_with_promotion&kwd=&currency=GBP&gclid=CjwKCAjw-6bWBRBiEiwA_K1ZDdpUOEGTtuSw_RErg8kpVAey3Hx7tERoPnlDuHGOX1-OjYXNu2tmGBoCQ8MQAvD_BwE

 

[Phil electric]

Thanks for your quick reply! thou I don't know why a video was posted of tubeless tyres was there was well !! (I thought that was your reply at first and I was confused lol !!!)

I have a SDURO Cross 4.0 Crossbar (2017) BTW.

 

[soundwave]

you can run lower psi if you go full tubeless but slime tubes do work

 

[georgehenry]

Houston, we have a problem

Background to the problem

The plug that locks the charger lead into the Yamaha battery has always to me looked a little fragile.

I am lucky to be able to leave my bike in a room at work where I can also plug in my charger.

Some time ago when I returned to the room to ride home I found that the plastic locking mechanism of the plug had broken, probably by the bike being accidentally knocked over by someone who never made themselves known to me although may not have realized that any damage had been done after righting the bike.

Ironically it was probably the fact that the plug locks in place that made it vulnerable to damage when the bike fell over although if it had been a metal plug I do not think it would have broken. Part of the broken locking cap sheared off and remained lodged in the battery charging socket on the battery and remains there still.

I consider myself very lucky to have a room where I can leave my bike to charge at work and decided not to make a fuss about my broken plug. It did make me realize that the plug is definitely not the most robust design.

Anyway I found that the plug could still be connected and the battery charged although no longer held and it could easily fall out.

I use a neoprene battery cover all of the time and when pushed down to partly cover the charging port this helps to hold the plug in place now. It can occasionally fall out now, but mostly works well enough.

About three months ago at home when I tried to attach the charger I found that I could not. I inspected the battery and found that one of the four pins that the charger plug locates into was slightly bent. I very carefully and gently bent it back so I could attach the plug
and charge the battery.

Anyway on Tuesday night last week I got my battery ready to charge and found that the charger light did not come on. When I inspected the battery and charger I found that the pin that had been bent had totally detached which explained why the charging light had not come on.

A separate issue I had with my charger was that wires from the end that connects to the plug became frayed close to where the cable enters the charger inside the outer casing that led to a short circuit and loud bang and a dead charger. Luckily the fuse protected the charger and I was able to use insulating tape to effect a repair and after replacing the fuse it all worked again.

I carry my charger to work with me in my panniers and the connecting wires are wrapped around the charger to put it in a pannier and unwrapped to charge the battery when I arrive at work and this constant wrapping and unwrapping may not have helped.emente

Now as I have documented I bought my bike from Martin at Ebike shop in Farnham and have had nothing but top notch after sales customer service when I have required it and found them to be a nice and helpful crowd.

So I dragged out my old B bike (2011 Oxygen Emate City) and used that to get me too and from work for the four shifts I had to do making a note to ring Martin to explain the problem and ask for help. What I expected to be able to do was to give Martin the battery and charger to be sent off to Yamaha to have a new plug connector put on the battery and likewise new leads put on the charger and have to pay a reasonable sum for the repair now that the bike is out of warranty.

What actually happened was that I was told that there was nothing that could be done and I would have to buy a new battery, and that he as a dealer cannot open up the battery and would appear to have no facility to get it repaired.

Now I can understand that Martin may not be able to open up the Yamaha battery but I was taken aback that the battery cannot be sent away to be mended. It just does not sit well that a battery I know to be in good shape and that may have lasted a good deal longer has to be ditched just because it needs a new charging plug fitting.

I have been incredible impressed up to now by the quality of the battery after just over three years usage and just shy of 9000 miles. Right up to the time the plug broke it had performed almost like new although the capacity must have been reducing it was not at all noticeable.

I do not think I am the only person to have had this failure but due to my regular use of the bike to commute to work on might be more vulnerable to this sort of mishap.

Of course I could just slap down the cash and buy a new battery and charger for £800 and carry on, but would be very worried that the plug could break again and in so doing right off potentially both the battery and charger.

That plastic locking plug really worries me now and ironically is not be as strong as the metal plug on my oxygen and could fail again.

Martin did say that as the battery is out of warranty there was nothing to stop me effecting a repair myself, but I would be on my own.

So fellow pedalec members, what suggestions would you give me in the position I find myself. Do any of you know of someone or somewhere I could approach to effect a repair? Has one of you been in a similar scrape and got out of it? How did you manage it?

What precautions should I take if I have to open up the battery case?

I am going to take it to a mate of mine tomorrow afternoon who used to be a BT engineer and generally very handy to explain the problem. I have the pin that sheared off. The least intrusive repair is probably best, perhaps as simple as a dab of solder to re-attach the pin.

The battery has about a 60% charge so can last a relatively long time.

In every other regard up to this point Martin and Ebike shop Farnham have provided excellent service.

Maybe I have an antiquated attitude but it seems just plain wrong to ditch a perfectly good battery and charger that just needs a new plug and lead.

 

[soundwave]

https://www.bga-reworking.co.uk/

they will even pick up the batt

 

[georgehenry]

Necessity is the mother of invention.

I guess if Raleigh are not going to fix it I am going to have to do it myself!

A mate and I took the plug at the charger end apart to find four colour coded wires. We soldered four appropriately coloured wires onto the wire pegs at the battery shrink wrapping each wire. We also managed to solder the yellow wire onto the metal base of the sheared of peg. We shrink wrapped all the wires together.

To see how we were doing we connected the wires individually to the four wires that we had exposed removing the broken charging plug from the charger.

We turned on the charger and the green light illuminated showing the battery was charging.

We will need to tidy things up now, probably silicon around where the leads enter the battery.

I will buy an appropriate four way connector so that the battery and charger can be easily connected and disconnected and that should be that allowing me to resume my ride to work and back on the Haibike and wear the battery out properly.

It has taken about half an hour so far and the bits will come to less than a tenner. A lot greener than throwing a good battery and charger away, as well as saving the odd £790.

Thanks for the useful suggestions and offers of help by lzzekerslik and soundwave in my other related thread Yamaha Battery / Charger Problem in the electric bikes section.

 

[georgehenry]

Well we ended up opening up the battery and soldering the wires directly inside where they cannot be bent or broken.

Nothing dreadful happened when we opened the battery case and the battery charged just as before when we had put it all back together.

We used external silicon sealant for where the wires exited the battery case.
The rather ugly generic four way connector that was less than a fiver hides inside the battery cover.
We also added the corresponding connector to my charger and opened it up and tidied up and replaced the wires that had become frayed over time.

My last ride to work on the sDuro was on the 13th of April with a short 20 mile return trip and the milage on the bike and battery reaching 8932. I was then off for four days and discovered my broken connector when I retrieved my battery to charge it on Tuesday evening the 17th April , not suspecting that I was in for a bit of a saga.

I used my trusty and in electric bike terms ancient Oxygen Emate City to get me to work for the ensuing four days of work.

Who knows if I would have bought a new battery and charger if I could not have overcome this problem, but I am still a little flabbergasted that if I was not able to effect this repair that would have been my only option.

I am not due back at work until around the 8th of May when the sDuro will resume service, but it might have to share the odd trip with the super sub Emate city now and then when the start time dictates a road trip too and from work rather than any off road. However I have always taken the old Oxygen on more forgiving off road tracks and found its unsuitability just adds to the fun!

 

[Nealh]

A good inexpensive save, like you I would loath to out lay for an expensive replacement when now't really wrong with old battery and good cells. Sadly the world we now live in, a throw away society. Manufacture may be cheap but retail isn't and with a niche growing market these brand moguls know how to charge/rip off customers.

 

[georgehenry]

The sDuro returned to service for three return trips to work and 66 miles. Due to being early shifts these rides were on the road and did not involve any off road elements.

As expected the battery and charger worked as before and my 20 mph average speed 10 mile return trip on the last day (Friday 11/05/18) used 37% of the batteries capacity.

The amount of the batteries capacity that I use on my journeys to work and back has not really changed very much from when the bike was new, which I think shows that the battery and its management system must be pretty good.

Although I love my old Oxygen Emate City the battery on that needed replacing after two years of the same use.

Now that the wires to the charger have been properly tidied up and new connectors added to the charger and battery, connecting the charger to the battery is easier and more secure than before.