haibike power fail

[stevieb]

my haibike sduro hardseven with yamaha motor has worked great until now.
after last ride removed battery to charge up.
refitted fully charged battery and nothing happens when switching on.
checked connections on back of lcd display but seem ok.
was raining last ride but been in worse and bike performed fine.
just wondering if there is any known issues that anyone knows of before i take it to the shop ?
thanks

 

[chris_n]

Battery in the display?

 

[Emo Rider]

It is not normal for these bike to simply stop working. There are usually codes that show up previous to this happening either on the display or on the charging levels on the side of the battery. If there is absolutely nothing one must assume power loss. You can purchase a basic multi meter to check the battery. Before that, check you battery connection points on the bike and the battery.

When all else fails, clean the contact points of your display and mount. Open the battery cover of the display, remove the battery and place
In a sunny window for the day. Put in a new battery when you put it back together. After all these basic checks the next steps are to remove the four small screws that hold the splash plate. Then remove the left and center motor bolts. Loosen the right bolt and lower the motor. Check the connections. Even if they look tight. Disconnect and reconnect just in case a spot of corrosion may be present.

If you have power and it still does not work, the cheapest next step is to replace the display mount. If this does not work, a new motor is likely. Or a good work out with an eight pound stiking maul.

Hope this helps.

 

[stevieb]

thanks for your advice .
its not the battery or display as they work on another bike.
cleaned the display contacts
so will now need to get the motor contacts looked at.

 

[Emo Rider]

thanks for your advice .
its not the battery or display as they work on another bike.
cleaned the display contacts
so will now need to get the motor contacts looked at.

Knowing this, I would try swapping the display mount from the bike that works. A lot of work but it will narrow down the cause. A new motor is not cheap out of warranty but not as expensive as a new bike. Glad I could help, good luck.

Cheers

 

[Dom T]

I went to go out on mine today, travelled to Llandegla, put my battery on no power just flashing lights, gutted. My hubs battery works on my bike, tried mine on his and nope no display no power, just flashing lights in a sequence on the battery. Put the bike back in the van and took it straight back to the supplier. I'm awaiting a call tomorrow, but looks like my battery is dead as a dodo. It's also a yamaha. It was fully charged as well.
Hope your's is okay
Dom

 

[Emo Rider]

I went to go out on mine today, travelled to Llandegla, put my battery on no power just flashing lights, gutted. My hubs battery works on my bike, tried mine on his and nope no display no power, just flashing lights in a sequence on the battery. Put the bike back in the van and took it straight back to the supplier. I'm awaiting a call tomorrow, but looks like my battery is dead as a dodo. It's also a yamaha. It was fully charged as well.
Hope your's is okay
Dom

How old is your battery as it is warranteed for two years. Sometime the codes displayed by the battery can be fixed but I would not be hopeful. Please post an undate of how you get on. I have a Yamaha Sduro Trekking with 2,500 miles and no issues. I have also worked selling these for three years and have only seen this once. It was on a bike less than three months old and it was a problem with the motor that also affected the battery. This is a very rare occurance and the motor and battery were replaced immediately, no questions asked. However, your situation with just the battery, is the first I have seen or heard of.

 

[Dom T]

I've had the bike since June 2016 so 15 months. The motor was replaced at the end of May 2017 when we had them in for a first year service, before going to Scotland. They had my bike for 5 days sent the motor off and it was replaced for a new one, can't deny the service I've had has been great.
Within 3 months of first having the bike my control unit was replaced, perhaps things are all connected. It's all worked well in between events so no complaints there.
The lights flashed alternately bar 1 and 3 together then and 2 and 4 together. Not a jot of an idea what that meant.
It's all still under warranty, so no charges , sometimes I think I have an unlucky bike, but then when you start adding electrical stuff to bikes then what do you expect.
I have my normal non motor road bike, but it's just not the same.
I'll let you know as soon as I know.

 

[stevieb]

bike now fixed
it needed a new motor.
i don,t know any more details as to the exact problem or what may have caused it.
thankfully done under warranty .
so a thank you to haibike for this.

 

[Dom T]

Imagine having to pay out for it.
Glad it's fixed.
Nope I never got to know what was wrong with mine either, nor my battery. They just sent a new one, eventually, it took a while. Still that's a new battery, a new motor and a new control unit. Must juts have had the one they put together on a friday afternoon. I've basically got a new bike bar the frame.

 

[Trampus]

Imagine having to pay out for it.
Glad it's fixed.
Nope I never got to know what was wrong with mine either, nor my battery. They just sent a new one, eventually, it took a while. Still that's a new battery, a new motor and a new control unit. Must juts have had the one they put together on a friday afternoon. I've basically got a new bike bar the frame.

I

 

[Trampus]

2017 Haibike / Yamaha. I have the same problem currently: intermittent failure of the bike to power up on pressing the power button on the keypad. During static testing I could sometimes replicate the fault by repeatedly pressing the power button. Finally, I could not get the bike to power up, regardless of how many times the button was pressed. Failure is always when switching on. No error messages are displayed. I never experience motor cut-off during riding. After eliminating battery, display and display contacts as the cause (by swapping components), the likely diagnosis was a faulty power switch. The switch function cannot be measured with a meter because the bike works by using an I2C bus. The signalling protocol allows a number of devices (eg keypad, display) to be individually addressed and data sent to them / received from them by the controller. Thus pressing the power button sends a signal to the motor controller (which will be in sleep mode) telling it to wake up and power the rest of the circuitry. What this means is that the fault isn't necessarily caused by a faulty button. Anyway, I replaced the keypad / display /cable harness with a new one. The bike would not power up. I returned the bike to the dealer who refitted the new keypad / display /cable harness. The bike then worked but of course the cause had not been identified definitively. It is likely that the problem will reoccur because, as I said, I experienced the fault when I fitted the new part.
And I checked all connectors and cables very carefully when I did that. Also, it's impossible to connect the harness wrongly. So, it's likely that fault is within the controller. Unfortunately the controller is integral with the motor, so I can't inspect that. I'm told by the dealer that it can take 10 to 12 weeks to get a new motor . Stevieb's experience may reinforce my view that the motor may have to be replaced. It's a shame the controller and the junction box that feeds it, isn't separate from the motor. I'll update this when I have more information.

 

[Dom T]

It took me 2 weeks for a new motor, but more for a battery, I suppose it all depends on supply and time to get to your dealer. We called my 2016 the Friday afternoon made up bike (one big rush to get home mechanic !!! ).
Please let us know.

 

[Trampus]

Thanks for your reply Dom T. My dealer is working hard to determine the cause of the fault and whether it is controller-related. Intermittent faults are a bitch unless you can diagnose at the time the fault is present. A buddy in the business confirmed that getting a motor could be 12 weeks, worse case — as my dealer said — or it could be as little as a week. I think Haibike / Raleigh don't allow dealers to carry motors as spares. Thus, if this is the case, a dealer can't plug and play with swapping out the motor. Anyway, this would be a fruitless task if the fault can't be replicated at the time. It would be interesting to know how many Habike owners experience electrical / electronic faults with Yamaha vs Bosch. Friday bike? Yup could be. The other three Haibikes in our riding group have been reliable. This one has had a lot of problems, yet all these bikes have faced the same riding conditions which means 95% fast off-road. It would be interesting to know if Yamaha or a subcontractor makes the electronic parts. If it is Yamaha, I'd expect the product to be very reliable. These things have got to become super reliable. You can put your MTB over your shoulder and walk if it fails. You sure can't do that with a heavy e-MTB, especially if you are ten miles into the wilderness with it!

 

[soundwave]

you can buy the Yamaha motors for £680 so id doubt they have any in stock as www.adrenalinatv.co.uk does not even have any.

with the bosch motors they want the old one back b4 they will even send one to a shop for warranty replacement and even out of warranty you cant upgrade even if you want to pay for it.

dealers cant open the motor as this voids warranty on all motor makes so if they cant fix it with the software they have then the only option is a motor replacement under warranty.

 

[stevieb]

i am sorry to hear you also have a problem Trampus.
it is a real problem with some ebikes that the controller is in with the motor.
i was thinking about upgrading my hardtail to a full sus but i have now changed my mind.
i am reluctant to spend thousands on a product that may cost me a lot of money when the warranty runs out to fix what may in fact be a very simple fault inside the controller.

i may wait until manufacturers train up dealers to fix the bikes .

i have spoken to a few manufacturers about this problem and none of them have a satisfactory answer for when the warranty runs out.
the standard answer is that the motors/controllers are too complicated for the dealers to repair.
well why not make them more user friendly and separate the controller etc from the motor.?

the long waiting time for a repair when still under warranty is also not good.
how many other products would the public accept this with ?

i have had a lot of fun with my haibike and i want the industry to continue to grow and improve but i can,t help think that manufacturers are getting a little bit ahead of themselves with non dealer repairable products.

the hub drive e bikes with separate controllers etc are more user friendly.

i hope your bike gets fixed soon.
.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

It's not just the parts supply that's the problem. Even when yo get the parts, you can find yourself locked out of using them by the software.

 

[stevieb]

It's not just the parts supply that's the problem. Even when yo get the parts, you can find yourself locked out of using them by the software.

well thats something else that i didn,t know.
getting too complex now when something goes wrong.
i get asked by workmates and friends about my bikes.
some are seriously interested in getting one but i don,t know what to recommend now.
i suppose this is a question i should ask in the relevant section.
so i will.

 

[Trevormonty]

Having external electronic controller and separate motor for hub drives bikes is double edge sword. Yes it is cheaper to replace components and repair if repairer has electrical back ground but not so easier for your average bike mechanic with no electrical knowledge.

With Bosch middrive, most LBS should be able replace motor easily enough plus Bosch provide diagnostic tools. Parts are easily to come by, its only drive, speed sensor, display and assist button module (combined in case of Purion). Expert help is only phone call away. Any LBS supporting Bosch drive can fix you bike even if its not one of their brands.

The bike manufacturer doesn't have to worry about after market support for drive system as Bosch has it covered.

In Woosh case they need to provide a complete set of spares for electrics include old and new models. The number LBS that would be capable of repairing Woosh ebike with electrical problems is also very limited.

NB I've used Bosch and Woosh as examples.

 

[stevieb]

thanks Trevormonty
i did not know that any bosch LBS supporting bosch drive can fix your bike.

So that should speed up the time to get a bike fixed in the case of bosch.

If the LBS diagnosed the fault as being in the controller or some other component which is within the motor unit would they still have to replace the whole motor?