Haibike Bosch or Yamaha

what does the forum think is best Hnaibike trekking with the Bosch motor or with the Yamaha?? Which would you buy given the choice?

 

Robbie

I have to confess to loving the look and quality appearance of the Yamaha motor. I also prefer the use of the larger size front sprocket. Sadly not tried one yet, so no help to you really.

 

I've also not looked to see what the battery output is on the Yamaha. You might also want to take that aspect of things into consideration when deciding.

Edited December 30, 201411 yr by EddiePJ

I have rode both systems, most recently the £2400 Yamaha powered trekking. I really like the way the power cuts in compared to the Bosch system. Given the choice of similar bikes I might be tempted to take the Yamaha, except..........yes there is always the except. If you saw a power and torque graph for the two systems, you would take the Bosch. The Bosch has 4 power levels while the Yamaha has 3. The Yamaha is a much simpler system while the Bosch is a tech freak's dream. There is the price difference, the Yamaha being less expensive. However the similar Bosch powered bike has better spec in the components. To summarize, it pretty much boils down to you get what you pay for. Try to get some test rides. You could write volumes and fail to convey the feeling you get in the first 200yards.

 

Cheers

Another thing that leans me toward the Yamaha trekking is the 20 speed gear train set up. You could really cover some serious daily tour distances without killing you battery. A cycle tourer's dream come true.

Let's make it more difficult. What about the Rotwilds with the Brose motor?

 

http://justebikes.co.uk/shop/rotwild/

I'm guessing that the larger front sprocket will also mean less wear and tear?

 

 

edit.. Not so difficult Dave. You just moved the goal posts in respect of price.

Lovely looking bit of kit, but I'm a sucker for the aesthetics of integrated batteries.

Edited December 30, 201411 yr by EddiePJ

Let's make it more difficult. What about the Rotwilds with the Brose motor?

 

http://justebikes.co.uk/shop/rotwild/

Wow! But the price..........ouch! But like I said you get what you pay for. A tad out of my budget.

The Yamaha system looks great - apart from the bit you look at most frequently, the display. It just looks a bit cheap to me, compared to the Bosch Intuvia display. If go for the Yamaha all the time apart from that one element.

 

Michael

Three levels looks to be a blunt instrument to me, but as Emo says, the 20 gears on the Yamaha should give you more opportunity to eke out the battery.

 

But by how much?

 

A single Bosch battery doesn't go far enough for my longer rides - 50+ miles - and I suspect the Yamaha would be the same.

I usually ride about 25 - 30 miles so there should be enough in either the Bosch or Yamaha battery. I was wondering if the Bosch powered bike has any really significant better components - I am not competent to judge!! I have ridden the cross with Yamaha power and the hard nine with Bosch power and felt that the Yamaha had more "grunt" on the hills. Also the range on the Bosch at similar power -i.e eco on Yamaha and Tour on Bosch (100% assist) seems less than the Yamaha.

 

I will go for the Trekking versions and am in the quandary of which to go for!!

 

Robbie

Too early to judge the component quality on the Yamaha.

 

I've had two Bosch bikes for a couple of years, and so far, so good.

 

There have been reports of an internal nylon gear stripping on the Bosch system, but there are, in ebike terms, lots and lots of Bosch bikes, so a failure or two is inevitable.

 

The Yamaha is suppose to have a bit more grunt, which your impressions confirm.

 

Having said that, I increasingly ride my bikes most of the time on eco or tour, so outright grunt is not important.

 

Battery range is far more critical.

 

If you are never going to ride more than 30 miles, either will do.

 

But most of us find we ride further then we envisaged, so I would factor the cost of a spare battery into the equation.

rsyme, I think that you might have mentioned the reasons for your choice before, but in case you haven't, is there a specific reason for the bike and motor choice.

There are other mid drive motors out there, as well as hub drive trekking bikes.

Not knowing what you have or haven't tried, I would suggest trying both options out. I've had one hub drive bike, the BH, and two mid drives, the Haibike Trekking and now the KTM.

If I'm being honest, mid drive/crank drive kind of leaves me wanting something more. I'm coming to the conclusion that they just don't float my boat. Superb at their job yes, and I've already clocked up roughly 400 miles on the KTM, but something is lacking. It certainly has nothing to do the bike itself, that is superb, but I do feel that I need to get my leg back over a Panasonic hub drive to confirm my suspicions.

Edited December 31, 201411 yr by EddiePJ

Eddie,

Most of the reason is that there are very few dealers here in Ireland and the dealer I have confidence in deals in BH, Kalkhoff, Staiger Sinus, Momentum and Haibike. Whereas there is a place selling KTM, they know little and one guy's purchase experience left a lot to be desired.

I ride up to 30 miles mostly on road so the mid drive suits well. I presently have a Kalkhoff Impulse Ergo but have had a lot of problems with it 2 motors and 3 batteries in 18 months so have lost confidence in it and want a change. Of the makes the dealer has and I have tried I like the Haibike, but have to make up my mind between the Bosch power or Yamaha power trekking models

 

Cheers and Happy New Year

Robbie

I'd have to ask if Yamaha prevent owners from purchasing motor unit spares in the same way that Bosch do.

 

I wish to maintain my own bikes and I see no reason why that cannot include motor / crank bearings and gear wheels etc.

I have no idea!! Perhaps you should phone Martin at e-bikestore, he may know.

Spares for the Yamaha motor will not be available straight away but in a few years time you should be able to by motor parts which means you would not normally need to replace the entire motor if there was a problem after the expiry of the warranty.

I'd have to ask if Yamaha prevent owners from purchasing motor unit spares in the same way that Bosch do.

 

I wish to maintain my own bikes and I see no reason why that cannot include motor / crank bearings and gear wheels etc.

 

Ian: I already have some external spares available in stock.

Also have split diagrams of motor internals with part numbers attached. Which I know is something we have talked about with the Bosch.

I will have access to these internal spares in approx 4 weeks should they be required.

 

rsyme: you know I have both the Yamaha and Bosch Trek's in stock right here in front of me? Maybe you could book an appointment to come over?

 

You can see which you prefer in the flesh.

 

You probably already seen it but here is my extensive side by side comparison.

https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/blog/post/bosch-yamaha-ebikes-differences-explained/

 

I also have my own review of each of the bikes on the blog too.

 

Regards

Martin

Robbie if you have to choose between Yamaha & Bosch then I'd go for Yamaha every time. It's a bit of an unknown in terms of reliability, but Bosch have hardly covered themselves in glory on that front.

 

There is a simple power output and power to weight ratio comparison table here: Rotwild / Bosch / Yamaha

From what I read it is not much power diffrence in real life.Here is one review:

http://www.ebikereviews.com.au/news/haibike-2015-models-debut-at-eurobike/

I tried a Cannondale Tramount 29er 2.With a bosh performance 2015 motor.which was very impressive,Very silent,I

just had to buy it.Much faster on hills than my neo cross.

Torque on Brose appears to be limited to 50nm

Torque on the chainring: 90 Nm (limiting torque to 50 Nm for protecting the switching periphery)

 

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.emotion-technologies.de/e-bike-infos/e-bike-pedelec-antriebe/brose/&prev=search

 

Although I imagine there is probably a dongle to derestrict this

 

Looks like a nice system. It is good to see more compeition as it makes everyone up their game.

Edited January 7, 201511 yr by Electrifying Cycles

Also have split diagrams of motor internals with part numbers attached. Which I know is something we have talked about with the Bosch.

I will have access to these internal spares in approx 4 weeks should they be required.

 

Have you got a part number and price for the smaller bearing on the pedal crank shaft, of which there are two of them, please?

Hi Artstu,

 

Is it one of our bikes? If so feel free to drop me an email where we will be sure to help you out with any spares / parts numbers.

Torque on Brose appears to be limited to 50nm

Torque on the chainring: 90 Nm (limiting torque to 50 Nm for protecting the switching periphery)

 

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.emotion-technologies.de/e-bike-infos/e-bike-pedelec-antriebe/brose/&prev=search

 

Although I imagine there is probably a dongle to derestrict this

 

Looks like a nice system. It is good to see more compeition as it makes everyone up their game.

 

The torque on ROTWILD Brose eMBTs are 90Nm (confirmed by its Frankfurt design team last week) - a 50% power advantage over Bosch.

 

The Rotwild's also much lighter than Yamaha or Bosch e-MTB, and has 14% greater battery capacity.

 

The Brose unit is silent because it incorporates a single-stage helical epicyclic gear train (difficult and costly to make). Bosch use cheaper spur gears so their motor makes a racket. The sound you get from noisy gears is the sound of them wearing out.

 

The Rotwild also offers much much higher ground clearance. Call in at our London and Suffolk stores if you'd like to try one, no need for an appointment.

The Brose unit is silent because it incorporates a single-stage helical epicyclic gear train (difficult and costly to make).

 

True of the Panasonic units too:

 

http://www.flecc.co.uk/p/images/IMG_2619b.jpg

Looks good Flecc, the Panasonics I've tried make a noise so presumably someone got their gear tooth sums wrong?

 

Here are some Rotwild/Brose innards, interesting to compare the two approaches to the same challenge of motor shaft speed reduction/torque increase. I'm sure the Panasonic is cheaper to produce (so good 'cos enables lower e-bike price), but to my mind the Brose solution is very eloquent and far better able to stand the horrors of 30 stone blokes standing on the pedals up a Welsh mountain!

 

Edited February 26, 201511 yr by james@justebikes.co.uk