Getting fit again on a Cyclotricity Stealth

[Taff]

Didn't know Tesco sold them. I shall be having a look at the very least.

 

[Artstu]

I can concur with Steves assertion of brand snobbery with regard to ebikes. It sort of feels like an exclusive club of essentially hobbyists. Thats fine if thats the way the traders really feel. But if they want a business some may consider that its better to open the doors a little to the hoi polloi.

You and Steve are so wrong on this point. I'd like to think you will at some point in the future come and admit to being wrong once you know more about bicycles. In Steve's case it is very clear he has a lot to learn about ebikes and bicycles, and he openly admits that. It was the snobbery comment that made me engage in this thread, so I could point out the error of your judgement.

That essentially means possibly producing a few loss leaders to grow the market.

I bought a bike from TESCO. Sorry for swearing But it allowed me a cost effective way to enter the market.

I attended the Redbridge event yesterday and was able to judge the bike against others.
Yes it did show up its limitations, and yes it gave room to think about upgrading to something better in future. But without the first step buying a cheaper supermarket bike I would probably never have had my interest tweaked.

I believe that is the same with so many other people.

You're already noticing that more expensive bikes are better. So please leave out the snobbery comments. They're not justified and show your lack of knowledge on the subject.

No one on here will dispute the fact that cheap bikes work perfectly acceptably, spending more does get you a better bike, that's not snobbery.

 

[Steve Hall]

I can concur with Steves assertion of brand snobbery with regard to ebikes. It sort of feels like an exclusive club of essentially hobbyists. Thats fine if thats the way the traders really feel. But if they want a business some may consider that its better to open the doors a little to the hoi polloi.

That essentially means possibly producing a few loss leaders to grow the market.

I bought a bike from TESCO. Sorry for swearing But it allowed me a cost effective way to enter the market.

I attended the Redbridge event yesterday and was able to judge the bike against others.
Yes it did show up its limitations, and yes it gave room to think about upgrading to something better in future. But without the first step buying a cheaper supermarket bike I would probably never have had my interest tweaked.

I believe that is the same with so many other people.

Excellent post, I must add like I have said in the past, some people have short hobbies, they join a Gym and go for a few weeks and end up with a monthly subscription left to pay. For those type of people buying the cheaper end and upgrading later if they are not fed up and have left their bike in the shed for a year, is the best option. Sales men on here should understand this and try encourage a better approach.

 

[Steve Hall]

Sorry to all for the mix up, I have re read the posts and I am now back on track. The gears... Could I purchase a 26" wheel with the gears attached, so I can dump my wheel. I have a front wheel motor. Or is the only option to buy the better bikes with these high end gears already fitted?

 

[flecc]

The gears... Could I purchase a 26" wheel with the gears attached, so I can dump my wheel. I have a front wheel motor. Or is the only option to buy the better bikes with these high end gears already fitted?

Bikes are infinitely flexible with what can be done. If you mean hub gears, any bike shop can build a wheel with the hub gear of your choice so that you can add it to any bike. If you mean derailleur gears, then derailleur ready wheels can be bought and the cassette of sprockets of your choice added, together with the mechanisms and controls, all of them at whatever quality you want, The price ranges are huge, as you'll see on the Wiggle site link below where you can select "Gears and Drivetrain" or "Wheels" on the left hand menu lower down:

Wiggle
.

 

[Steve Hall]

You and Steve are so wrong on this point. I'd like to think you will at some point in the future come and admit to being wrong once you know more about bicycles. In Steve's case it is very clear he has a lot to learn about ebikes and bicycles, and he openly admits that. It was the snobbery comment that made me engage in this thread, so I could point out the error of your judgement.



You're already noticing that more expensive bikes are better. So please leave out the snobbery comments. They're not justified and show your lack of knowledge on the subject.

No one on here will dispute the fact that cheap bikes work perfectly acceptably, spending more does get you a better bike, that's not snobbery.

Snobbery is not a swear word and no offence is intended, it simply means that people believe that their product is better than everyone else's and they have the best. If you are to have a forum about e bikes, then it should be an unbiased view about all e bikes. There is nothing wrong with you or anyone else stating that you can buy high end products and you happen to have one and it works well. That's fine. But I have read on here people knocking the lower end of the market like it is just total rubbish; simply because they own a high end bike, to me that is clear brand name snobbery. I also like German products, I have a German car and boiler and many other German products that are all excellent. I would not say that my next door neighbours Citreon car is worse than mine though, it gets her to work every day and it hasn't yet let her down in the past 8 years.

 

[flecc]

I have read on here people knocking the lower end of the market like it is just total rubbish; simply because they own a high end bike, to me that is clear brand name snobbery. I also like German products, I have a German car and boiler and many other German products that are all excellent. I would not say that my next door neighbours Citreon car is worse than mine though, it gets her to work every day and it hasn't yet let her down in the past 8 years.

Unfortunately there was a period of many years when most of the low price e-bikes were definitely junk and a waste of peoples money Steve, and that did colour many views. Another factor is that many suppliers were (some still are) "band-wagon jumpers" who disappear after selling a few bikes, leaving no support or replacement batteries. That last point is important, the number of e-bikes introduced for which no replacement batteries have been available after a year or so is a disgrace. It's possible to lash up another battery as a replacement mounted on a rear carrier, but that's not what many want to do and many don't have the knowledge or ability to do that.

Things have certainly improved more recently, but one can understand the caution about cheaper bikes of those who, like myself, have been on this scene for many years. We've seen how the suppliers who charge more and sell upmarket products have had staying power and mostly give good service, while the low end of market contained among it's members all those guilty of all the sins mentioned and more.

I'm no high-end purchase snob, for example, of my two cars, one is a poorly regarded very cheap one but ideal for my citycar purpose so I couldn't care less what others think of it. The other car for all my other uses is so unpopular that very few people will ever see one in their lifetime!
.

 

[Artstu]

Excellent post, I must add like I have said in the past, some people have short hobbies, they join a Gym and go for a few weeks and end up with a monthly subscription left to pay. For those type of people buying the cheaper end and upgrading later if they are not fed up and have left their bike in the shed for a year, is the best option. Sales men on here should understand this and try encourage a better approach.

That's a very sensible approach, I dipped my toe into ebikes with the cheapest bike going, at the time I didn't really have a clue how I'd cope on a bike. So for sure the cheaper bikes have a place, I'll be much more demanding than a none cyclist who hasn't ridden a decent bike before. My cheap bike did the job and was in my opinion good value for money. I still think the high-end bikes I'm looking to buy are over-priced in comparison with high-end none electric bikes, not being mainstream is the biggest factor to high prices I guess.

 

[Artstu]

I'm no high-end purchase snob, for example, of my two cars, one is a poorly regarded very cheap one but ideal for my citycar purpose so I couldn't care less what others think of it. The other car for all my other uses is so unpopular that very few people will ever see one in their lifetime!
.

Now I'm wondering, come on you have to tell us what they are? Mine is a 14 year old Micra, proving I'm certainly no snob.

 

[Steve Hall]

Unfortunately there was a period of many years when most of the low price e-bikes were definitely junk and a waste of peoples money Steve, and that did colour many views. Another factor is that many suppliers were (some still are) "band-wagon jumpers" who disappear after selling a few bikes, leaving no support or replacement batteries. That last point is important, the number of e-bikes introduced for which no replacement batteries have been available after a year or so is a disgrace. It's possible to lash up another battery as a replacement mounted on a rear carrier, but that's not what many want to do and many don't have the knowledge or ability to do that.

Things have certainly improved more recently, but one can understand the caution about cheaper bikes of those who, like myself, have been on this scene for many years. We've seen how the suppliers who charge more and sell upmarket products have had staying power and mostly give good service, while the low end of market contained among it's members all those guilty of all the sins mentioned and more.

I'm no high-end purchase snob, for example, of my two cars, one is a poorly regarded very cheap one but ideal for my citycar purpose so I couldn't care less what others think of it. The other car for all my other uses is so unpopular that very few people will ever see one in their lifetime!
.

I didn't have you in the Snob category Flecc, before I purchased my bike I browsed many threads on here and I actually think your input should receive a commendation. You appear to have helped hundreds with answers to their questions, are very knowledgably and I for one feel I can trust what you have to say. Again you have clearly pointed out why the mistrust in lower market products exists and I can understand this. Although, batteries and other parts are readily available on most internet shopping sites. Just in case the supplier suddenly disappeared, I checked before my purchase if I could buy batteries etc from other places, that is something that anyone buying the lower end products should do. If they are to buy low end products, people need to factor in that they may have no warranty as such and might need to buy more parts. That's why I said in an earlier post, I could buy parts for the next 5 years and I doubt I would spend £2500 that I would spend on a high end bike. I also doubt I will be riding at the end of the summer, I do get fed up with hobbies fairly quickly and my aim is to get fit again, so if I spent £2500 it would be just a waste of money. If I am still interested by the end of the summer, who knows I may find myself upgrading, I doubt it will be to another electric bike. If I am fit enough it will be a normal pedal bike, what the point in having assistance if I don't need it. I will not however, knock anyone for wanting to get fit and buying whatever bike they can afford to do it.

 

[Steve Hall]

Now I'm wondering, come on you have to tell us what they are? Mine is a 14 year old Micra, proving I'm certainly no snob.

I have a Smart fortwo. No doubt you all know that Smart actually make an e bike, or have someone in Germany making them for them. I have had a little ride, they are alright but I felt its paying more for the design than the actual product. It's quality built, they have done their research, probably sat reading what Flecc had to say for months before deciding to market one and then they went and got it wrong. Perhaps you should have given them some marketing tips Flecc. Basically Smart have a low end Fortwo and a High end Fortwo car known as the Brabus. They have done the same with the bike, they have launched the low end e bike with a 200 watt motor and fairly average spec so they can later launch the high end Brabus. They haven't done their market research that well though, pricing the bike at £2500 is in the same price bracket up there with the top end electrics, and it's not difficult to work out that if you are into electric bikes, you will not buy a Smart when the high end boys have a proven track record. I am not sure they have sold any, I haven't seen one that someone actually bought on the road or you tube.

 

[flecc]

Although, batteries and other parts are readily available on most internet shopping sites. Just in case the supplier suddenly disappeared, I checked before my purchase if I could buy batteries etc from other places, that is something that anyone buying the lower end products should do.

The problem with batteries is that a number of e-bikes have specific within-frame placement and even inside-frame-tube placements for which only the original type fits. There are no like-for-like substitutes made for any e-bikes, the market is to small for that to have developed. Many have been let down by lack of replacements of these types and a rear carrier substitute is not really an acceptable solution, leaving an ugly empty facility and also technically beyond many to convert.

 

[Artstu]

Originally Posted by flecc
I'm no high-end purchase snob, for example, of my two cars, one is a poorly regarded very cheap one but ideal for my citycar purpose so I couldn't care less what others think of it. The other car for all my other uses is so unpopular that very few people will ever see one in their lifetime!
.

Now I'm wondering, come on you have to tell us what they are? Mine is a 14 year old Micra, proving I'm certainly no snob.

That was aimed at Flecc, hence the bit of his post I quoted.

 

[flecc]

Now I'm wondering, come on you have to tell us what they are? Mine is a 14 year old Micra, proving I'm certainly no snob.

The city car is a Chevvy Matiz, much slated and replaced by the better regarded "Spark" model. The problem is that all the opinions are based on it's abilities as an all round car, for which it is poor, but solely as a city car there is no better one, and it's better for that than the Spark. There are many reasons for that, but I won't go into that at length here.

The general purpose car is a Suzuki SX4-SZ5 with three drive options, 2 wheel, Intelligent 4 wheel and locked 4 wheel drive for the worst conditions. They are built to special order only by Magyar-Suzuki in Hungary, and mine is the later phase model which I had to wait several months for. There were only 393 of them in the whole of the UK when I bought it, mostly in the more challenging regions. In the south I've never seen another, though I did once see an SX4 standard lower slung model on the road.

Here's one, it's bigger than it looks in photos, nearly Qashqai size in fact. Another photo, not mine.
.

 

[103Alex1]

It is just the thought of spending over twice the amount my car cost to buy on a bicycle, I'll bite the bullet one day and do it.

Feel the same way, Artstu - I nearly fell over in horror when I had to come to terms with what a really good bike with excellent range and scope to be pushed beyond the limitations of most others would set me back. However, on balance I don't regret spending it. The bike's done everything I wanted it to (except inspire me to climb mountains on it) and been a comfortable pleasure to ride on a daily basis.

The hoops I've jumped through and cash outlayed to try to create my own high quality alternative with better hill performance, equally good specs (as good as I can get them) good looks, quality touches I like / can control better and built in powered extras are VERY considerable when added up.

Provided the performance you get from the bike you choose suits your style, helps make your admirable goal of staying healthy, happy and active against considerable odds more enjoyable and achievable, the outlay is worth it. The car in itself does little to help any of that .

some people have short hobbies, they join a Gym and go for a few weeks and end up with a monthly subscription left to pay. For those type of people buying the cheaper end and upgrading later if they are not fed up and have left their bike in the shed for a year

Yes, it's a good point where fancy gyms are concerned - but just thought I'd point out that not all gyms insist on annual subs (mine is paid monthly, no minimum subscription, may be cancelled at any time ... and only costs £15 a month - not much more than a bottle of chain cleaning fluid from Park Tool or a packet of decent razor blades ! ). Prefer to be riding a bike than being there but both are useful for a proper balanced exercise routine, if you're not one for doing pull-ups off a door frame.

Everyone works on different parameters but to me, spending £699 on any bike if you're a "short hobbyist" is a heck of a lot of money and way more than I'd pay for something I wasn't committed to getting use out of. Would be cost-prohibitive for me to want to even try. You may as well buy a decent 2nd hand bike for £100 - £250 and ride it fewer miles whilst burning more calories (if that's your goal) to make sure you're committed enough to cycling at all before forking out for an eBike.

If you're not able to drive or not able to ride a regular bike for health reasons things are different and the decisions are easier to make - faced with a choice between a bus or your own independent transport, spending more on a good eBike makes complete sense. You're on it enough to appreciate the value of the better components.

If getting fit on a budget is your goal, then go for some walks - it's free ! Or unless you are averse to them, join a sensibly priced gym - you can get over 3 years' subscription many places for the price of a cheap eBike that'll probably need maintaining and looking after a fair bit. If, however, you enjoy being on a bike and getting around out in the open air then spend what you can afford to buy the best eBike your budget can justify. If you really like it and it puts a smile on your face whenever you set off on it then it's doing more than getting you fit - it's making you happy and that's a good enough reason to fork out.

 

[Artstu]

If getting fit on a budget is your goal, then go for some walks - it's free !

I wrote that out in a post right at the start, but didn't post it. Walking is fantastic for getting fit and keeping fit. I was a big walker in my past life, well actually I still am compared with an average person.

Steve getting fit isn't something you can just do this year and then forget about it, it's like dieting, it has to be a lifestyle change, something you can keep doing for the rest of your life. Find something you enjoy and keep doing it.

 

[Steve Hall]

Steve getting fit isn't something you can just do this year and then forget about it, it's like dieting, it has to be a lifestyle change, something you can keep doing for the rest of your life. Find something you enjoy and keep doing it.

You mean I have to keep dieting for the rest of my life, the doctor never said that, he said when I get to 14 stone he will be happy. Damn, wait until I next see him.

 

[Steve Hall]

Feel the same way, Artstu - I nearly fell over in horror when I had to come to terms with what a really good bike with excellent range and scope to be pushed beyond the limitations of most others would set me back. However, on balance I don't regret spending it. The bike's done everything I wanted it to (except inspire me to climb mountains on it) and been a comfortable pleasure to ride on a daily basis.

The hoops I've jumped through and cash outlayed to try to create my own high quality alternative with better hill performance, equally good specs (as good as I can get them) good looks, quality touches I like / can control better and built in powered extras are VERY considerable when added up.

Provided the performance you get from the bike you choose suits your style, helps make your admirable goal of staying healthy, happy and active against considerable odds more enjoyable and achievable, the outlay is worth it. The car in itself does little to help any of that .



Yes, it's a good point where fancy gyms are concerned - but just thought I'd point out that not all gyms insist on annual subs (mine is paid monthly, no minimum subscription, may be cancelled at any time ... and only costs £15 a month - not much more than a bottle of chain cleaning fluid from Park Tool or a packet of decent razor blades ! ). Prefer to be riding a bike than being there but both are useful for a proper balanced exercise routine, if you're not one for doing pull-ups off a door frame.

Everyone works on different parameters but to me, spending £699 on any bike if you're a "short hobbyist" is a heck of a lot of money and way more than I'd pay for something I wasn't committed to getting use out of. Would be cost-prohibitive for me to want to even try. You may as well buy a decent 2nd hand bike for £100 - £250 and ride it fewer miles whilst burning more calories (if that's your goal) to make sure you're committed enough to cycling at all before forking out for an eBike.

If you're not able to drive or not able to ride a regular bike for health reasons things are different and the decisions are easier to make - faced with a choice between a bus or your own independent transport, spending more on a good eBike makes complete sense. You're on it enough to appreciate the value of the better components.

If getting fit on a budget is your goal, then go for some walks - it's free ! Or unless you are averse to them, join a sensibly priced gym - you can get over 3 years' subscription many places for the price of a cheap eBike that'll probably need maintaining and looking after a fair bit. If, however, you enjoy being on a bike and getting around out in the open air then spend what you can afford to buy the best eBike your budget can justify. If you really like it and it puts a smile on your face whenever you set off on it then it's doing more than getting you fit - it's making you happy and that's a good enough reason to fork out.

I thought people bought electric bikes because they struggle getting up the hills and want to get fitter. I didn't even realise until the last few days that people actually buy these bikes for other reasons. I thought this site was for wealthy unfit snobs who bought expensive toys to help them along. That's why I bought the bike and set out to inform people they can get fit on budget and don't need to spend a fortune. I still haven't grasped it though, I can't understand, if you lot on here are actually fit enough to cycle, then why don't you just buy a top end road cycle?

 

[hopper_rider]

I cant remember exactly what route led me to buying an electric bike.
I was hedging my bets in case i wouldnt be able to drive.

I think I read a few threads on this forum, and was wondering about converting an existing bike to electric. But the kits seemed to cost the same or more than the bike I purchased.

My reasoning was that buying the cheap bike would give me something to try, something to understand what makes it different from a normal bike, and then allow for a greater better understanding if I really wanted to get more expensive.

I mentioned the 'snobbery'. But that must be balanced with the fact that there are many willing to give advice which has been incredibly useful.

On reflection, from the explanations in this thread, maybe snobbery was assumed incorrectly. But not everyone has the benefit of hindsight. Many potential ebikers are new to the concept and wont know of any historical significance to the seemingly high prices of ebikes.

 

[flecc]

I still haven't grasped it though, I can't understand, if you lot on here are actually fit enough to cycle, then why don't you just buy a top end road cycle?

Something that has also puzzled me Steve. Although my experience of assisted bikes goes back 62 years, I didn't adopt one myself until 10 years ago when the hills in my area got too much when trailer pulling, and later too much for solo riding as well.