Yeah I remember Zeta and its friction drive on on the rear wheel. The point is had he done the research he would have found the patents from hub motors from the turn of the centuary, and with a bit of thought he could have been the person responcible for kick starting the electric bike revolution. Its a shame, because with his connections to Hover he could have started a real industry here at home.
German e-bike market success
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
In fact Germany was first with consumer hub motors, Heinzmann first on the market in 1922 and still making them now of course. Dutch electrical giant Philips also had a hub motor ready for the market in 1922 but didn't launch it.
In England we had our own first though with crank motor e-bikes launched in the early 1980s and they caused the government to pass our EAPC law in 1983 so they no longer had to be registered as motor vehicles. One of those crank motor designs, the TGA Electrobike, continued in production well into this millennium. Another view of one.
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Yes, all his computers were complete crap at the time compared to the Acorn equivalents. They were cheap though.
What you write is true. Many components that sell in the hundreds of thousands can be made cheaper and in good quality in various Asian countries today and they are made there.
On the other hand you CAN find things invented and also made in Germany, for example
some very good lights (see Supernova, Busch&Müller, Supernova?), Magura brakes, the new electric bicycle horns from B&M and Supernova, Tubus racks, Rohloff gear hub, Pinion gear drives, the most expensive Continental tires, SON dynamos hubs and I'm sure man many more I do not know.
Most time this stuff is expensive or even very expensive, but in my opinion often is worth its price if you want something very good.
Of course the standard technology often is good enough for most people, that's why they sell in such great numbers.
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Here are the import and export numbers and many more, sadly only in German:
http://www.ziv-zweirad.de/fileadmin/redakteure/Downloads/Marktdaten/PK-2018_13-03-2018_Praesentation.pdf
I found it interesting that only 1% of all Pedelecs sold in Germany have been speed Pedelecs, but 3% have been electric cargo bikes.I think this is a great success for cargo bikes. (see page 18)
There has been some subsidues on them for comapnies recently, don't know if that already had impact on the numbers for 2014
I have quite a few "made in Germany" bits from your list on my pedelec. b+m lights are great (I have 6 or 7) but they aren't reparable which I think is a design flaw, if something isn't reparable it shouldn't be expensive...
Can we have a link to the b+m horn please?
This one:
I have to admit that it is expensive (70-80€) and you can not repair it.
Needs 6V to 36V. Power consumption in standby is 0W (exactly zero), power consumption in action is around 1.5W. It's not as load as a car horn, but imho load enough.
E number for speed pedelecs. I own one, but had no time to mount it. (a bit more complicated on my bike than I thought)
I have to admit that it is expensive (70-80€) and you can not repair it.
Needs 6V to 36V. Power consumption in standby is 0W (exactly zero), power consumption in action is around 1.5W. It's not as load as a car horn, but imho load enough.
E number for speed pedelecs. I own one, but had no time to mount it. (a bit more complicated on my bike than I thought)
In my experience having spent big on ebikes they have generally been reliable but its the little things that have spoiled it for me. Specifically the small chrome bits that went rusty within 4 months on a £4000 Scott bike!
And about RM bikes which feature heavily in this thread.. I like the ideas they bring and fancy trying one with a view to purchase, which is fine if I can find someone that sells them! I have visited all the bike shops near me and none had even heard of them let alone get one to show me, so, doing a dealer search shows me two at around 50 miles and one at 150 miles away but RTB warranties make this a 100/300 miles round trip for any problems I cant fix myself which has to be taken into consideration.
Which gets my Sunday afternoon rant out of the way...
Good man!
Right, I'm having one of those!
I will have to lengthen the wire to reach my handlebar though. Lets hope that it likes 49.8v as much as the b+m headlight does...Producing pedal cars for executives to use in London, wasn't the best use of grey matter IMO.
Bosch parts are engineered and designed in Germany. ( The clever bit ) like Astras designed and engineered in Germany. Just assembled in the UK like ebikes in China.
Assembly, doesn't reflect the component quality which is German.
D
Deleted member 4366
Guest
Quality is whether thing works or not - nothing to do with who designed or made it. According to the pedelecmonitor database, you're less likely to get a problem with a Chinese hub-motor than anything by Bosch made/designed in Germany:
https://pedelecmonitor.wordpress.com/mittelmotoren/nabenmotoren/
I have read on many surveys just the opposite, Bosch vs Chinese goods...
IMO, Design and workmanship are the reasons something has quality. Chinese copy and make it cheap. I have had two Chinese motors fall apart.
D
Deleted member 4366
Guest
Can you show us a survey with actual data that backs that up? The Pedelecmonitor uses data from actual users, and it's German!
I was a quality specialist for 20 years and I made most of my money in Germany showing them where they had gone wrong and how to do it right. That's showing them, not telling them. I have a pretty good handle on how it works there.
The Chinese have changed from the methods they used 10 years ago. The big manufacturers have now adopted modern quality control systems and techniques. It's the same as what happened in Japan in the '70s. They not only took the best systems and techniques available, but improved on them and used them with a vengeance that left everybody else dead in the water.
Just to balance your Chinese failures, I've been using their motors for 8 years and done around 16,000 miles. I've never had a single issue with any hub-motor and I had one problem on a crank motor where an external sprocket snapped after I doubled the allowed power and tried to drive away in top gear with my new found torque. A replacement sprocket was about £8.
You must be very unlucky because in the last three years, I've never heard on this forum of any motor failure that could be described as falling apart. I can remember about 5 years ago, a guy had a side-plate that came loose and I've seen some worn gears on very old motors, but I must admit that I'm struggling with "fell apart". Can you explain further with more details. I'm intrigued.
Both Chinese motors had component failure. Friends from cycling clubs have noticed the quality when switching to Bosch and Yamaha.
I do not doubt your experiences, but equally nor the people I have had direct contact with or indeed my own.
German manufacturing is consistent with quality, whilst Chinese goods focus on cost.
I prefer reliability.
I do not doubt your experiences, but equally nor the people I have had direct contact with or indeed my own.
German manufacturing is consistent with quality, whilst Chinese goods focus on cost.
I prefer reliability.
Sorry, my experience is the opposite.
I have two Chinese bikes and they have performed well.
The TONARO, now 7 years old needed a new sprag clutch this year.
The Woosh gale (5 years) a hub motor just motors on, no problems.
If anything does go wrong with a Chinese bike you can easily and cheaply repair it yourself.
Also, I just don't get this 'Quality thing'
Either things work flawlessly or they don't.
I have never had a problem with Chinese quality, so what is so special about German quality?
Bit like the TV repairmen that used to call around fixing British TVs. Fidelity,Ferguson, Baird etc loads of cheap spares unlike the new Japanese TVs which were expensive to fix.
But you didn't need repairs for the Japanese sets.
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