German e-bike market success

In 2017 almost three-quarters of a million e-bikes were sold in Germany, one in five of all bicycle sales. If only we in the UK could enjoy that success, here it's probably only one in forty at most.

All the detail on this link

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In 2017 almost three-quarters of a million e-bikes were sold in Germany, one in five of all bicycle sales. If only we in the UK could enjoy that success, here it's probably only one in forty at most.

 

All the detail on this link

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And not counting the many ebike kits fitted by diyers, a read thru pedelec.de threads shows a vibrant scene there as well.

The best e-bikes seem to be German-made. German engineering, and work ethic are a winning combination.

https://etrike.wordpress.com/

Chinese and Canadian and German bits assembled in Germany by a photographer does that make him an engineer?

The best e-bikes seem to be German-made. German engineering, and work ethic are a winning combination.

Various comments I’ve been reading lately on this forum:

Kalkhoff are probably the most unreliable e-bike motors available.

Bosch motors are made in France.

Riese and Muller use Taiwanese frames and Cube frames aren’t made in Germany either.

Given that almost all of the other bits screwed onto a "German" e-bike come from the Far East anyway, what part of a German Branded e-bike is actually German... apart from the excessively inflated price?

On the other hand, there seem to be some pretty good, well-engineered e-bikes coming out of Czech/Romania if you want an e-bike assembled in the EU by workers who genuinely do seem to have a good work ethic... but being sold for sensible money.

Various comments I’ve been reading lately on this forum:

 

Kalkhoff are probably the most unreliable e-bike motors available.

 

Bosch motors are made in France.

 

Riese and Muller use Taiwanese frames and Cube frames aren’t made in Germany either.

 

Given that almost all of the other bits screwed onto a "German" e-bike come from the Far East anyway, what part of a German Branded e-bike is actually German... apart from the excessively inflated price?

 

On the other hand, there seem to be some pretty good, well-engineered e-bikes coming out of Czech/Romania if you want an e-bike assembled in the EU by workers who genuinely do seem to have a good work ethic... but being sold for sensible money.

My comment just solidifies my inexperience regarding e-bikes. I chose the Riese-Muller Charger GT on the recommendation of an 80-year old friend who has put 4000 miles on his Homage since August.

Both my previous Rose and current Riese and Muller Charger have a solid build quality which I've not seen on any other bikes.

Quality bits skilfully assembled is all it takes, but lots of makers seem to fall down on one, the other, or both.

Both my previous Rose and current Riese and Muller Charger have a solid build quality which I've not seen on any other bikes.

 

Quality bits skilfully assembled is all it takes, but lots of makers seem to fall down on one, the other, or both.

Well, that sounds to me like a great testament to the quality of Far Eastern manufacture given the bulk (probably all) of your Riese and Muller bike is actually manufactured, if not assembled, there.

All we seem to be missing is the opportunity to pay the poor Far Eastern factory another £50 to assemble your Riese and Muller bike properly in the factory where it's actually made, and you could've avoided the whole "German assembly" thing and saved yourself a thousand quid or two?

It seems you have a bias against Riese-Muller and anything labelled "German-made". I know my bike was made to order, whether in Germany or Outer Mongolia is scant relevance if the engineering was done by Herrs Riese und Muller. That every owner of an R-M electric bike raves about the build-quality is a testament to the work-ethic and quality control of whatever factory is producing these bikes -- something most other bike manufacturers are not obviously enforcing.

I don't know (or care) what bike your pedalling, but I'm sure a side-by-side comparison with an R-M and yours would be enlightening. And BTW, R-M owners aren't concerned about saving a grand or two if the bike they receive is everything they've always wanted.

It seems you have a bias against Riese-Muller and anything labelled "German-made". I know my bike was made to order, whether in Germany or Outer Mongolia is scant relevance if the engineering was done by Herrs Riese und Muller. That every owner of an R-M electric bike raves about the build-quality is a testament to the work-ethic and quality control of whatever factory is producing these bikes -- something most other bike manufacturers are not obviously enforcing.

 

I don't know (or care) what bike your pedalling, but I'm sure a side-by-side comparison with an R-M and yours would be enlightening. And BTW, R-M owners aren't concerned about saving a grand or two if the bike they receive is everything they've always wanted.

You're missing the point entirely. Your German bike isn't German at all. It's a product of Global manufacture... just with an inflated German price tag. R&M are as German as Woosh or Amps bikes are British. I am half-German by the way, so have no axe to grind. But hey. delude yourself if you choose to.

And those bikes use Bosch electrical parts. It's the electrical parts that give the most reliability issues apart from the accelerated wear and tear on the drive train. Did the Riese and Muller engineers didn't change them to make them any more reliable than any other Bosch bike? Is there a special R&M bearing or seal behind the drive sprocket to stop water getting in?

Bosch parts are made in China, and have the same kind of manufacturing quality issues as many other parts.

When did anybody ever have a non-electrical problem with a Kudos bike? AFAICS, build quality isn't really an issue on bikes from any of the established brands.

Re Riese and Muller. They are certainly assembled in Germany, I have been there and seen the factory.

The frames come in from Taiwan and most of the components are made in Asia as per most electric or vanilla bikes. A large percentage of the Bosch motor parts are made in China. I'm not sure where the battery is made but I would guess China or Japan, but certainly Asia.

So what?

Although they are only assembled in Germany, it does not mean to say they are not great bikes. They are assembled with care and precision... as are most of the products that come out of China in particular or Asia in General

When will we stop worrying about where a product is made/built, surely it's the product that counts not the country of origin? As long as the assemblers and buyers are happy that slave or child labour is not being used to make the products, it really doesn't matter.

Edited March 29, 20188 yr by Wisper Bikes

Re Riese and Muller. They are certainly assembled in Germany, I have been there and seen the factory.

 

The frames come in from Taiwan and most of the components are made in Asia as per most electric or vanilla bikes. A large percentage of the Bosch motor parts are made in China. I'm not sure where the battery is made but I would guess China or Japan, but certainly Asia.

 

So what?

 

Although they are only assembled in Germany, it does not mean to say they are not great bikes. They are assembled with care and precision... as are most of the products that come out of China in particular or Asia in General

 

When we stop worrying about where a product is made/built, surely it's the product that counts not the country of origin? As long as the assemblers and buyers are happy that slave or child labour is not being used to make the products, it really doesn't matter.

Bloody hell! I insisted that they used child-slave labour!

I've always thought Ebike would take off in a big way if a lead character in a soap where to be seen riding one, or if a postel worker in a rural area soap was featured riding one as a normal fixture. I know i only discoverd the ebike by accident.

Now if only Sir Clive Sinclair, back in the day, had the foresight to 'reinvent' the electric hub motor instead of his feable 'electric car'.

Product placement anyone?

I'm sure my Bosch battery is marked Made in Poland, and someone said the motors are made in France.

Not that it's so important, although the only bit I've had conk out on any of my three Bosch bikes is the Chinese made thumbswitch.

Quality components, properly assembled is all that's needed.

The premium German brands are good at that.

It comes down to what you value.

I would rather pay slightly more for a slightly better overall product, which is what you get with the likes of Riese and Muller.

Some buyers are very price sensitive.

We all make our choices.

I can remember round about 1992, when the LE Velocette was next to useless

It was a solution to a problem that never existed.

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Now if only Sir Clive Sinclair, back in the day, had the foresight to 'reinvent' the electric hub motor instead of his feable 'electric car'.

He did try repeatedly to produce e-bike motors and an e-bike, all three useless like almost everything he ever produced.

They were the Zeta 1 friction drive on tyre front motor, the Zeta 2 being almost the same thing but mounted on the back wheel and just as useless, and the failed Zike e-bike.

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He did try repeatedly to produce e-bike motors and an e-bike, all three useless like almost everything he ever produced.

 

They were the Zeta 1 friction drive on tyre front motor, the Zeta 2 being almost the same thing but mounted on the back wheel and just as useless, and the failed Zike e-bike.

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Yeah I remember Zeta and its friction drive on on the rear wheel. The point is had he done the research he would have found the patents from hub motors from the turn of the centuary, and with a bit of thought he could have been the person responcible for kick starting the electric bike revolution. Its a shame, because with his connections to Hover he could have started a real industry here at home.

Yeah I remember Zeta and its friction drive on on the rear wheel. The point is had he done the research he would have found the patents from hub motors from the turn of the centuary, and with a bit of thought he could have been the person responcible for kick starting the electric bike revolution. Its a shame, because with his connections to Hover he could have started a real industry here at home.

In fact Germany was first with consumer hub motors, Heinzmann first on the market in 1922 and still making them now of course. Dutch electrical giant Philips also had a hub motor ready for the market in 1922 but didn't launch it.

In England we had our own first though with crank motor e-bikes launched in the early 1980s and they caused the government to pass our EAPC law in 1983 so they no longer had to be registered as motor vehicles. One of those crank motor designs, the TGA Electrobike, continued in production well into this millennium. Another view of one.

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He did try repeatedly to produce e-bike motors and an e-bike, all three useless like almost everything he ever produced.

Yes, all his computers were complete crap at the time compared to the Acorn equivalents. They were cheap though.

Given that almost all of the other bits screwed onto a "German" e-bike come from the Far East anyway, what part of a German Branded e-bike is actually German... apart from the excessively inflated price?...

What you write is true. Many components that sell in the hundreds of thousands can be made cheaper and in good quality in various Asian countries today and they are made there.

On the other hand you CAN find things invented and also made in Germany, for example

some very good lights (see Supernova, Busch&Müller, Supernova?), Magura brakes, the new electric bicycle horns from B&M and Supernova, Tubus racks, Rohloff gear hub, Pinion gear drives, the most expensive Continental tires, SON dynamos hubs and I'm sure man many more I do not know.

Most time this stuff is expensive or even very expensive, but in my opinion often is worth its price if you want something very good.

Of course the standard technology often is good enough for most people, that's why they sell in such great numbers.

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Here are the import and export numbers and many more, sadly only in German:

http://www.ziv-zweirad.de/fileadmin/redakteure/Downloads/Marktdaten/PK-2018_13-03-2018_Praesentation.pdf

I found it interesting that only 1% of all Pedelecs sold in Germany have been speed Pedelecs, but 3% have been electric cargo bikes.I think this is a great success for cargo bikes. (see page 18)

There has been some subsidues on them for comapnies recently, don't know if that already had impact on the numbers for 2014

On the other hand you CAN find things invented and also made in Germany, for example

 

some very good lights (see Supernova, Busch&Müller, Supernova?), Magura brakes, the new electric bicycle horns from B&M and Supernova, Tubus racks, Rohloff gear hub, Pinion gear drives, the most expensive Continental tires, SON dynamos hubs and I'm sure man many more I do not know.

 

Most time this stuff is expensive or even very expensive, but in my opinion often is worth its price if you want something very good.

 

Of course the standard technology often is good enough for most people, that's why they sell in such great numbers.

I have quite a few "made in Germany" bits from your list on my pedelec. b+m lights are great (I have 6 or 7) but they aren't reparable which I think is a design flaw, if something isn't reparable it shouldn't be expensive...

Can we have a link to the b+m horn please?