Finally bought a smaller folder for conversion...

[morphix]

Glad to see you posting again - was just about to put up a "where is Morphix" thread. Sorry about the tyre problems - must have been a right let down (or blow out come to think of it .... ) !

Hope your rim's OK - might be a good idea to check the wheel is still true ?

Thanks Alex Yes it would be a shame if the rim i trashed..it got a bit chewed on the edge from road contact but I will try and sand it down with a fine grade sand paper to remove any rough edges and hopefully that should sort it.

I've just had so much on lately had to keep postponing this Mezzo conversion for 3 since the looong wait for the freewheel from China.. then the bad weather..I just started a new OU business course 2 weeks ago also.

I've been filming everything I've been doing as I've been working on the bike which no doubt will be interesting/funny for some of you to watch when I can get round to editing it and picking out the good bits!

 

[morphix]

According to my calculation, you''re geared for about 14.5mph real speed, but the motor will be spinning a lot faster than your old one, so might be making a bit more power. The motor in my Dahon spins at the same speed as yours, but you have smaller wheels so you'll get more torque too, which always makes it feel more powerful. Like I''ve told everybody else 12S lipos at 48v and 17 amps will make you bike fly with that motor, and it'll give a top speed of about 18 to 19mph. The other thing I've figured out is that the KU65 is the better controller because it has three levels of PAS instead of the stupid cadence related power. With the KU 63, you need a cruise control. I tried the Speedict on Legal Mode 2, but they've got the power related to cadence in that too. It makes me wonder if these designers/software guys ever ride their creations.

I know what you mean about the torque Dave and effect of smaller wheels and motor wired to spin faster RPM.. phew blimey, it really does pull and takes hills really well..it's got far more pulling power than my old 26" and you feel a jolt if you open the throttle fully.

When I turned the bike upside down to first test the motor the whole bike was rocking and shaking!! This worried me and I did wonder if the torque was too much or the motor/controller was giving out far more power and speed output than the legal limit and what effect this might have on the little Mezzo drop outs.

When I rode it first time yesterday it was unwieldy to say the least, this was in part due to the smaller wheels/steering of a smaller bike, and obviously due to the rear wobble mentioned.. I'm not sure though whether that was just the tyre problem, the weight I was carrying on rack or some inherent problem and/or too much power.. only further tests once a new inner and tyre fitted will reveal the answer ;-)

 

[morphix]

There's no way that the motor's too powerful for it. Don't forget that Cwah has a MAC in his Dahon with about three times the power as yours. I'd say something not right with the fitting of the tyre - probably the bead not sitting evenly on the rim. Could be that you just had a puncture that blew out with the extra stress of weight and power.

What's the final spec then? I got the Q100 motor, but what about the controller and battery.

I forgot to mention.. don't know if you guys remember.. I fitted a 7-spd 11T-28T freewheel to replace the original 9-spd cassette... yesterday I didn't have time to fit the new shift (turns out the cable was too short on the new 7-spd shifter I got).. so I just left the chain on smallest wheel (11T) so it was in 7th gear and highly geared with the 52T chainst.. I could keep up with the motor nicely at full power pedalling...felt like I was going 23-25mph!! In 6th gear after dropping the chain, it was more of a struggle to keep up with it motor had to pedal flat out!

 

[morphix]

Mezzo Q100 = fold compromised

After I tried to fold the bike last night to get it in the boot of a KA, it proved impossible. I'm pretty sure this Q100 has compromised the fold of the Mezzo, even though it's only widened the drop outs by 5mm. It seems like the two wheels can no longer line up properly and the front wheel is obstructed from it's catch thing at the rear. This bike is a PIG to fold at the best of times and I'm still getting the hang of it, because I haven't used it more than once or twice, so I'm hoping it's just lack of practice.. but if the fold is compromised as I suspect it might be, then I will definitely have to build a new wheel and try a smaller motor to retain portability of the bike. I have a couple of candidates for smaller motors in mind which weigh only 1.4-1.6kg.

As it is now, I managed to fold it down fairly small but nowhere near the original compact size I managed with original rear wheel.. I doubt I could carry this with Q100 in shoulder bag and travel with it, but we'll see. I'm wondering if Q100 is over kill for a bike this small..the mega speed is fun, but portability is the aim I'm going for, I'll gladly go for a slower speed/lower powered motor if I can retain a perfect fold and less weight.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

If it turns out that your motor is too wide, you can make it narrower by going down to a 5 or 6 speed free-wheel. The Q100 isn't particularly powerful at 36v and 15 amps. I don't know why they write 250 to 350w on the label because in my experience it has less torque than the bigger 250w Bafangs. If you decide that the torque is too much, you can easily tame it with the KU65 controller, which will be a lot less hassle than fitting a new motor.

When I built my Dahon, I kept everything the same with the 8 speed gear-changer and rear derailleur, and it worked perfectly with the new 7 speed free-wheel. I didn't make any adjustments. I just had a spare position at the end of the twist-grip.

 

[morphix]

If it turns out that your motor is too wide, you can make it narrower by going down to a 5 or 6 speed free-wheel. The Q100 isn't particularly powerful at 36v and 15 amps. I don't know why they write 250 to 350w on the label because in my experience it has less torque than the bigger 250w Bafangs. If you decide that the torque is too much, you can easily tame it with the KU65 controller, which will be a lot less hassle than fitting a new motor.

When I built my Dahon, I kept everything the same with the 8 speed gear-changer and rear derailleur, and it worked perfectly with the new 7 speed free-wheel. I didn't make any adjustments. I just had a spare position at the end of the twist-grip.

Good point Dave, I can certainly get 6-spd 11T freewheel and that might be a good option to try..that was my first thought originally when I realised the wheel wouldn't just fit of its own accord...should have gone for 6-spd and played it safer! But we measured it and everything looked good for 135mm width and 7-spd.. often when you come to fit, things turn out different eh.

Hmm that's interesting about your shift.. maybe I can leave my 9-spd then.. I've left the derailleur on as Catsnapper said it didn't need changing. I did buy a shorter one designed for a folding bike, but looking at, I think the height saving is only slight and probably not worth the hassle of replacing original which Catsnapper thinks is better quality anyway. One of the main things I love about the Mezzo is the super smooth gear so it would be nice to keep everything original.. what happens if you accidentally slip the shift up to the 2 redundant gears then? Nothing?

 

[Old_Dave]

I'm pretty sure this Q100 has compromised the fold of the Mezzo, even though it's only widened the drop outs by 5mm.

When I turned the bike upside down to first test the motor the whole bike was rocking and shaking

I'm sorry to say ...that is where the 'test' should of ended, until of course the reason for the shaking was found and rectified.

Photos taken of the rear hub showing clearances both sides and how central the rim is between the chain stays would help.... 5mm may of been better saved on the axle rather than stretching the frame

 

[morphix]

I'm sorry to say ...that is where the 'test' should of ended, until of course the reason for the shaking was found and rectified.

Well you have to remember Dave the mezzo is only a little lightweight bike, it's basically like a Brompton.. it's also not very stable anyway when upturned (has a tendency to fall over).. the shaking occurred when the throttle was at full power and I put this down to just the bike being upside down and having no weight on it or forward motion. It would be necessary to test under load going forwards to confirm if the shaking continued. The motor has unbalanced the bikes weight also and created a lot of additional weight to the rear, which already has the integrated rack.

Photos taken of the rear hub showing clearances both sides and how central the rim is between the chain stays would help.... 5mm may of been better saved on the axle rather than stretching the frame

Yes, I did take photos after fitting the motor and expressed my concern about widening the drop-out but I've been working with Catsnapper closely over the last month and not posting much to the forum. We thought 5mm would be ok and not affect things and the pictures looked ok.. but I'll post them up later or take some clearer ones when I get the bike back.

 

[Old_Dave]

I put this down to just the bike being upside down and having no weight on it or forward motion. It would be necessary to test under load going forwards to confirm if the shaking continued.

From a famous film...

Igor: Dr. Frankenstein...
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: "Fronkensteen."
Igor: You're putting me on.
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: No, it's pronounced "Fronkensteen."
Igor: Do you also say "Froaderick"?
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: No... "Frederick."
Igor: Well, why isn't it "Froaderick Fronkensteen"?
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: It isn't; it's "Frederick Fronkensteen."
Igor: I see.
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: You must be Igor.
[He pronounces it ee-gor]
Igor: No, it's pronounced "eye-gor."
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: But they told me it was "ee-gor."
Igor: Well, they were wrong then, weren't they?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

.. what happens if you accidentally slip the shift up to the 2 redundant gears then? Nothing?

Nothing on mine, but you might have to reset the end-stops on the derailleur travel to stop it dragging the chain off the end cogs.

On the axle inside the free-wheel is a bush, which effectively sets the length between the drop-outs. If you fit a cluster with less stack-height, you need to file down the length of the bush otherwise all you'll achieve is a bigger gap between top gear and the drop-out.

 

[cpg]

Have you measures the axle width of the original wheel and the new wheel to see if they are actually the same and do in fact measure 135mm?
The catch on the rear that holds the front wheel in the folded position is screwed to the frame so it should be possible to unscrew it, pack it out and use a longer screw so it protrudes further and solves the problem. It might be worth checking the catch below the seat post clamp that holds the rear triangle in place in the unfolded position. If it seems to be loose it can be adjusted in the same way as catch on the folding handlebar stem.
Forgive my ignorance, does the q100 use a conventional cassette or is it internal gear hub?

 

[morphix]

Have you measures the axle width of the original wheel and the new wheel to see if they are actually the same and do in fact measure 135mm?
The catch on the rear that holds the front wheel in the folded position is screwed to the frame so it should be possible to unscrew it, pack it out and use a longer screw so it protrudes further and solves the problem. It might be worth checking the catch below the seat post clamp that holds the rear triangle in place in the unfolded position. If it seems to be loose it can be adjusted in the same way as catch on the folding handlebar stem.
Forgive my ignorance, does the q100 use a conventional cassette or is it internal gear hub?

Thanks cpg I wasn't even aware you could adjust that catch so that might just do the trick, perhaps a bit of compensation as you suggest is all that's needed there.

Another potential problem is that the seat post doesn't seem to go fully down now either since I changed the wheel, so will have to investigate that and confirm.. it may just be me being not fully familiar with the folding procedure though, as unlike the Brompton, with the Mezzo there's a very specific way of doing it and you have to remember to do each stage in the right order eh else it just doesn't work or fold neatly.

I did make a drawing of each stage and tried to simplify it, as the user guide isn't very clear and the DVD they supply is a bit too quick with computer generated imagery. It would be nice to have a video showing someone doing the fold and unfolding and explaining a simple way to remember the steps.. I'll do one when I get the bike back and everything sorted.

 

[Old_Dave]

does the q100 use a conventional cassette or is it internal gear hub?

conventional cassette

 

[morphix]

Have you measures the axle width of the original wheel and the new wheel to see if they are actually the same and do in fact measure 135mm?

I just measured the original rear wheel axle and it looks 140mm, give or take a mm or two.

The problem I had with the new wheel was a big nut on the opposite side to freewheel...that prevented the axle otherwise just slotting in.. it was only about 4-5mm so hence I just used a spanner to give more leeway and allow for it. This will become clear when I upload the videos shortly showing this procedure and the wheel fitting with my mate.

I think the 6-spd as Dave suggested would have been better though and would have just gone straight in most likely with minimal/no bending of drop outs needed.

I don't know if forcing this 7-spd in has caused problems..what do you guys think? I've heard others do this and it's done on Bromptons I believe. I guess when I post up pics and vids you guys can better determine.. and further road tests will see if the wobble is related to it once I get new tyre and inner fitted. I'm wondering if perhaps the chain no longer lines up properly with freewheel/derauiller, but it seemed ok to pedal and the chain didn't come off, just the wobble at higher power was the only problem...it was like the back of the bike had a mind of its own and wasn't going where the front was going! Perhaps this could just be that the speed was too much to handle on a bike with such small wheels and twitchy steering? I dunno what other small bike owners think who have Q100 and ride at full power.. Dave? I guess it's like riding a motorbike at full throttle, the handling and road traction is definitely going to be more challenging eh...maybe I just need to get used to it and ease off the throttle unless on very straight roads.

On another note... the silver rim doesn't look nearly as bad as I thought and maybe I was being over fussy about having black rim.. but now I have to replace the front rim because it does look a bit odd with one black and one silver :-/ so I dunno.. I wish I had known about the rim being silver at the start, I would have sent it to a local factory for powder coating. Pity there isn't an alternative quick and easy way to black the rear rim without dismantling the wheel.. I guess building a new front silver rim is the lesser of two evils.

 

[morphix]

New tyre and inner supplier recommendations?

So, I'm in the market for a couple of inners and tyres for the 16" 349mm rim wheel.. I want something puncture resistant ideally or maybe I can put some of that layering stuff you can get between tyre and innertube (making it even more of a pig to fit than it already is!)

Can anyone recommend any good suppliers that do free/fast delivery, and any specific tyres or solutions for puncture protection would be great... and if anyone has any suggestions for tools or tips re changing 16" tyres to avoid damaging the tyre and inner, please do share.. that was a right ruddy pain getting that tyre off! It took me a good 30 minutes wrestling with it.. I had to use two kitchen table knifes, not ideal, but I normally change 26" with those easily without causing any damage to wheel or inners..16" is much tighter though. Catsnapper said I didn't too badly at 30 mins for first attempt and some people really struggle with 16" tyres ;-)

P.S. I hate that damn slime stuff and question how useful it even is! The Mezzo comes with that from factory.. it's really horrible and messy, even comes out when you just inflate the tyres!

 

[shemozzle999]

I use these Kenda tubes mainly because they are the right size:

2x 16x 1 3/8 BROMPTON BICYCLE INNER TUBES CAR VALVE NEW | eBay

Don't be tempted to buy these as they are too big:

BROMPTON INNER TUBES ****3 FOR £10 **** | eBay

 

[morphix]

I use these Kenda tubes mainly because they are the right size:

2x 16x 1 3/8 BROMPTON BICYCLE INNER TUBES CAR VALVE NEW | eBay

Don't be tempted to buy these as they are too big:

BROMPTON INNER TUBES ****3 FOR £10 **** | eBay

Cheers Shemozzle.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Trust me, your problem was nothing to do with the speed or power of the motor. There shouldn't be any problem with traction or stability. Once you get your new tyre and tube on, everything will be rosy. I run mine with a lot more power than you do and I'm a lot heavier, and if I want, I can ride it like a motorbike like that with throttle only, but instead I use a cruise control to give lower power, which I turn up for steep hills.

 

[morphix]

Trust me, your problem was nothing to do with the speed or power of the motor. There shouldn't be any problem with traction or stability. Once you get your new tyre and tube on, everything will be rosy. I run mine with a lot more power than you do and I'm a lot heavier, and if I want, I can ride it like a motorbike like that with throttle only, but instead I use a cruise control to give lower power, which I turn up for steep hills.

That's good to know and I'm sure you're right.. this is all new territory for me, little bikes I love it though, totally different experience to big road bikes eh. It was a breeze carrying that little bike down 2 flights of stairs y'day instead of struggling with my bike 26".

I suspect that inner and/or wheel got mangled maybe during the wheel fitting. I did notice actually yesterday, when I inflated the tyre before the first road test, it was hissing for a while after I removed the pump and lost all the air within a couple of mins...my initial thought was...oh ffs punctured or ripped inner! That's all I needed..as I had arranged to meet some people and had to deliver my parcels on route and it was 5pm!... anyway, I pumped it up again and the second time, there was a strange noise, like a fizzing and bubbling noise!! I assumed that was the slime doing its thing...I continued pumping and that second time, after I was done, there was no air loss, no hissing.. so I thought ah, puncture mended! Left it 30 mins, still good..so off I went.

This begs the question..is that slime stuff intended to do permanent fixes to minor punctures, or is it just like a temporary solution to slow down loss of air sorta thing?

 

[shemozzle999]

As for tyres, any of these will fit your rim but you need to read Jerry's guide on how to fit them first:

brompton tyres | eBay

or watch this Brompton video:

http://support.brompton.co.uk/entries/21603758-replace-a-tyre-or-the-inner-tube


Note! he aligned the label on the tyre with the valve this helps with finding the valve position in low level light
conditions.