Finally bought a smaller folder for conversion...

[hech]

Hey, I'm all for a considered approach to things but come on now Gents, it's been 18 pages and rising and your not Jane Austin after all. Just get your wheels on and your bum in the saddle and then tell us all about it.
Best wishes, hech.

 

[morphix]

Hey, I'm all for a considered approach to things but come on now Gents, it's been 18 pages and rising and your not Jane Austin after all. Just get your wheels on and your bum in the saddle and then tell us all about it.
Best wishes, hech.

Why don't you find another thread that's more up your street and toddle along there and annoy some other poor souls because I've a feeling there's another 18 pages yet to come on this one, and we wouldn't want to bore you now, would we?

 

[morphix]

Morphix, FWIW I can understand where you are coming from and thinking all this stuff through on something you've not done before off a piece of paper is not easy. But sometimes variations & compromises = inevitable part of project.

All hech seems interested in is the bike bits and not the aesthetics or functionality. It's a shame he doesn't have the sensitivity to appreciate that people looking for solutions and exploring options around those aspects is actually as interesting and relevant to some people as how to build the biggest dick extension in the commuter lineup.

Yes nicely put Alex. If I can achieve what I set out to achieve I will do it, even if it seems I'm making extra work for myself and extending the build time. The end result will be worth it. Part of the fun is in the journey getting there with projects..you learn new things and I like the fact that people come to the thread and share their ideas and suggestions on how to do things. That's what makes this forum so interesting, you can always learn something and follow other peoples journeys. Some people just post up the end result as I did on my first build..but on this build, I decided to use the thread more as a journal-type thing and keep updating it with the progress..

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Hey, I'm all for a considered approach to things but come on now Gents, it's been 18 pages and rising and your not Jane Austin after all. Just get your wheels on and your bum in the saddle and then tell us all about it.
Best wishes, hech.

I can feel your frustration Hech, but you just have to be patient. This is going to be a work of art.

BTWhave you done that 48v conversion yet, or are you still deciding on what battery to get?

 

[hech]

I'm sorry D8veh I was just off annoying Indalo.
If you are refering to the Gen2 then I have to report that so far I have found it disappointing at both 36v and 48v in comparison to the Tonaro at same. I dont like the noise and I dont like the chain drive. Both however are aesthetic considerations and of course subjective. If you would like I will produce a lengthier and more quantative comparison for you and other member's perusal.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I was only joking.
I was referring to the Tonaro. Did you ever get it to 48v? I didn't realise that you had a Gen 2 GNG. So, not as powerful as the Tonaro: That's interesting. Are you still using it or have you given up with it?

 

[hech]

Yeah D8veh(helluva name to spell btw) the tonaro leaps about like a gazelle at 44v lipo, 48v proper would be something else but i dont have the money or space for a 48v battery. The Gen2 is alright but I should have taken your advice and stuck with the higher powered GNG1. Dunno how you possibly manage choosing between which of 8 bikes to take out in the morning?

 

[cpg]

You could get the hub rebuilt onto the old black rim by missing out some spokes on either side. Its quite a common thing to do on small wheel folders, see the bikeforums discussions. If you decide to get rid of the silver rim I would be interested in buying it as I have Sram dual drive hub waiting to turn my mezzo into a 24 speed.

 

[shemozzle999]

I placed my order with BMS and they said it's being delivered in TWO DAYS from stock. Heh. I got 4 thumb throttles to keep some spares incase they break..so if anyone wants one, just give me a shout (the basic thin one with no LEDs - $4 each).

Hi morphix,

Do you still have any available?

 

[cpg]

Another solution, build a new front wheel using the same type of rim so that front and rear match. Front hub is standard so cheap and readily available. My Mezzo is black but it came out of the factory with silver wheels

 

[morphix]

Update - And first test ride

OK guys.. some news on this slow Mezzo build.. after 2 weeks in a row of delays and not being able to work on it, I finally got it ready for a test ride today, although the gear shift was not fitted so it was set highly geared.. and there is still a brake cut-out sensor, PAS senor and Speedict to be fitted.

I fitted the thumb throttle, controller and battery onto the back rack in the Mezzo commuter bag just to get a minimum set-up for a test ride.. although I had planned a quick short test ride round the block I needed to go to the sorting office urgently and drop some parcels off so decided to risk it as the motor seemed stable and gears felt smooth. Everything looked fine. Except for the rear tyre looked like it might have a slow puncture. I suspected that might have been caused by damage while removing the inner tube. Anyway, I inflated it, left it or 30 minutes or so before setting off and it felt ok so I took a pump and decided to go around the block and if it held up, continue the journey.

No sooner had I got to the corner of the street as I felt something wasn't right. The back of the bike was wobbling making the bike difficult to control and keep straight. The motor was REALLY powerful compared to my old 26"..man this bike can move on full throttle!! But the more I opened the throttle, the more prominent the rear wobble began, at some points it was because difficult to keep the bike straight and quite dangerous to continue riding to so I had to cut back on the speed and pedal which helped a bit. I stopped and checked the back wheel, the tyre pressure seemed ok.

I couldn't figure out any obvious reason for this, whether it was just too much weight on the rack (I had a lot of packages in commuter bag), too much power and torque on the rear wheel, or the fact we had to widen the drop-outs a bit to get the motor in and the wheel being off-centre or something. Maybe it needs torque arms.

Anyway I managed to get to the sorting office, but then on the way home, disaster struck. The ride started getting REALLY bumpy and the bike began shaking like crazy. I stopped and noticed I'd had a complete blow out of the rear tyre. Never seen anything like it! The inner tube literally snapped in half and was OUTSIDE the wheel wrapped around the hub, and I was riding on the rim basically.The bike was covered in green lime and the tyre looked really mangled up

Luckily this happened only about 5 mins from my mothers house so I was able to wheel it back and leave it there until my brother can fetch it over. The wheel rim was dragged along the road quite some way is in a bit of a state but I think it might be ok with a new inner tube and tyre.

So, at this stage, I don't know if I was unlucky and got a puncture that got worse.. or whether the motor just doesn't work in the Mezzo and is too big and powerful. Maybe this can be overcome with torque arms. Another possible problem is that I suspect the fold is compromised by the widened drop-outs and rear hub motor. The bike just doesn't seem to fold as easy as before..but saying that, it is a pig to fold anyway and takes some practice!

I may end up having to source a much smaller motor I think, but when I get the bike back at weekend or next week, I'll be able to find out more.

 

[cpg]

Sounds to me like a tyre / inner tube problem. Did you have any difficulties fitting the tyre to the new rim? Good chance the tyre wall was starting to fail, possibly caused by some previous damage. The higher pressure in the inner tube after you pumped the tyre up would cause a bulge in the tyre and give you the wobbly ride. Eventually the tyre lets go, the tube meets the road and pops, I have experienced this myself. Make sure you get 349 inner tubes, not just any 16" inner tube.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

There's no way that the motor's too powerful for it. Don't forget that Cwah has a MAC in his Dahon with about three times the power as yours. I'd say something not right with the fitting of the tyre - probably the bead not sitting evenly on the rim. Could be that you just had a puncture that blew out with the extra stress of weight and power.

What's the final spec then? I got the Q100 motor, but what about the controller and battery.

 

[morphix]

Sounds to me like a tyre / inner tube problem. Did you have any difficulties fitting the tyre to the new rim? Good chance the tyre wall was starting to fail, possibly caused by some previous damage. The higher pressure in the inner tube after you pumped the tyre up would cause a bulge in the tyre and give you the wobbly ride. Eventually the tyre lets go, the tube meets the road and pops, I have experienced this myself. Make sure you get 349 inner tubes, not just any 16" inner tube.

That sounds quite like what might have happened cpg. I think there was some damage to the tyre on refitting.. I had a friend help me get the motor into the drop out in the end because it just wouldn't fit..even though we measured.. we basically had to widen them with a spammer while he hammered the motor home and it just about fit. But he was a bit heavy handed and we didn't notice that a brake block was not aligned up probably and it went straight under the tyre next to rim and inner tube! Was a pig to get out too. The tyre was starting to look a bit tatty after that..so maybe that's happened as you said, loose fit, gave up and the inner came out and contacted with road or pressure bulge as you said..I didn't hear any bang or pop oddly through.

Well I'll get a new inner and tyre and try again.. fitting those 16" in 349mm is a real PIG so maybe get some tips this time and use less brute force approach to avoid damage again. Then we'll see how it goes and whether a re-think is needed on the motor, whether that be torque arms or smaller motor.. this is a Q100 motor btw, rated 350W but with 250W controller. Seems a lot more powerful though as I said, than my last 250W motor/controller setup. Feels like the controller is putting out 350W!

 

[morphix]

There's no way that the motor's too powerful for it. Don't forget that Cwah has a MAC in his Dahon with about three times the power as yours. I'd say something not right with the fitting of the tyre - probably the bead not sitting evenly on the rim. Could be that you just had a puncture that blew out with the extra stress of weight and power.

What's the final spec then? I got the Q100 motor, but what about the controller and battery.

250W KU63 controller with 36V 10Ah battery. Nothing done to controller, as is, from factory.

 

[Old_Dave]

Stranger and stranger said Alice ... but it aint the motor power that caused the problem

 

[cpg]

My Mezzo had a tyre problem recently, the side wall was breaking down and starting to bulge, interestingly it was a Brompton tyre. I have put the proper Mezzo tyre back on but if you look closely at the Mezzo tyre the Mezzo label says something like 80-100 psi, but the actual moulding on the tyre states 50-60 psi. Might be worth getting some Schwalbe Marathons or Kojacs to replace the damaged tyre.
My new Sram dual drive hub was a pain to fit as well and its the correct axle width. The rear forks are shorter than a full sized bike hence stiffer and don't flex as much when squeezing the rub between the drop-outs.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

According to my calculation, you''re geared for about 14.5mph real speed, but the motor will be spinning a lot faster than your old one, so might be making a bit more power. The motor in my Dahon spins at the same speed as yours, but you have smaller wheels so you'll get more torque too, which always makes it feel more powerful. Like I''ve told everybody else 12S lipos at 48v and 17 amps will make you bike fly with that motor, and it'll give a top speed of about 18 to 19mph. The other thing I've figured out is that the KU65 is the better controller because it has three levels of PAS instead of the stupid cadence related power. With the KU 63, you need a cruise control. I tried the Speedict on Legal Mode 2, but they've got the power related to cadence in that too. It makes me wonder if these designers/software guys ever ride their creations.

 

[103Alex1]

Glad to see you posting again - was just about to put up a "where is Morphix" thread. Sorry about the tyre problems - must have been a right let down (or blow out come to think of it .... ) !

Hope your rim's OK - might be a good idea to check the wheel is still true ?

 

[morphix]

My Mezzo had a tyre problem recently, the side wall was breaking down and starting to bulge, interestingly it was a Brompton tyre. I have put the proper Mezzo tyre back on but if you look closely at the Mezzo tyre the Mezzo label says something like 80-100 psi, but the actual moulding on the tyre states 50-60 psi. Might be worth getting some Schwalbe Marathons or Kojacs to replace the damaged tyre.
My new Sram dual drive hub was a pain to fit as well and its the correct axle width. The rear forks are shorter than a full sized bike hence stiffer and don't flex as much when squeezing the rub between the drop-outs.

I agree, this is the way to go I think.. I was wondering what new tyres to go and where to source them at this size.. I need something puncture resistant really..

Getting that motor in the Mezzo was a real pain too. The rear drop out were narrower than appeared, had to force them apart at least 5mm with a spanner while a friend hammered the motor in (carefully) on the flat side of thread with a screw driver. It was a VERY tight fit. I am just lucky I didn't have to file out the drop out on the opposite to derailleur to accommodate it.

You can see how dainty the rear wheel looks by comparison when it was removed, tiny little hub with very thin QR spindle!