Fifth London Cyclist dies in nine days

[Mike63]

Frankly you amaze me! The cyclist should not have tried to share the width of a lane with a car

When the cyclist overtook the bus there were 2 lanes he wasn't sharing the lane with a car, while not something I would do...not being in my 20s anymore, he was quite confidently overtaking the bus, the car driver should not have turned in ....for whatever reason ,I realise now, as HarryB points out, it was because of a van turning right but this does not give the car driver carte blanche to turn into the other lane without checking it's clear....he should have stayed back till the van had cleared his path.

It is illegal to turn into the path of another vehicle in this way and while the cyclist may well have been considered stupid by more careful individuals I think that the car drivers illegal manoeuvre was to blame for the accident.

 

[flecc]

So if the timing had been different and the Golf had clipped the bus then the buses insurance company would have paid for the damage? Just to be clear as I don't think it would even go knock for knock (although that is always a possibility these days especially without video evidence). The under-taking bit is a bit of a red herring isn't it?

It is indeed, but just the sort of red herring that insurers use to cop out of claims.

Personally I'm less interested in what the vehicles or their drivers are doing than in keeping cyclists safe by emphasizing that their safety is primarily their responsibility. I believe that every time a cyclist blames drivers they put themselves in a frame of mind which makes them more likely to have an accident, since it psychologically takes the onus from themselves.

Better that they think of their own responsibilities and thus be always more cautious and aware.

 

[HarryB]

Personally, I'd suggest the cyclist was going to pass the bus, come hell or high water, Otherwise, why would he have overtaken the motorcycle?

Reading witness statements by all those who've commented here would be interesting - Several conflicting descriptions of what actually occurred... And we've all had the advantage of studying & restudying the video.

I think the point is the "accident" is caused by a couple of impatient road users both failing to observe the situation as it unfolded. Saying it is 100% the driver or cyclists fault is a bit odd as if either party had obeyed the rules it wouldn't have happened.

 

[flecc]

When the cyclist overtook the bus there were 2 lanes he wasn't sharing the lane with a car, while not something I would do...not being in my 20s anymore, he was quite confidently overtaking the bus, the car driver should not have turned in ....for whatever reason ,I realise now, as HarryB points out, it was because of a van turning right but this does not give the car driver carte blanche to turn into the other lane without checking it's clear....he should have stayed back till the van had cleared his path.

It is illegal to turn into the path of another vehicle in this way and while the cyclist may well have been considered stupid by more careful individuals I think that the car drivers illegal manoeuvre was to blame for the accident.

I think you're exaggerating, the car driver wasn't changing lanes, just moving slightly left in a legal manner. It was a two lane road and the cyclist was attempting to make it a three lane one.

He was not legitimately overtaking the bus since he was at no time ahead of the car before hitting it amidships and crashing. He was trying to do a double overtake in one move, first to pass the car on the left and then later to pass the bus on the right.

That's just plain asking for trouble, and it found him.

 

[Jimod]

Saying it is 100% the driver or cyclists fault is a bit odd as if either party had obeyed the rules it wouldn't have happened.

The car driver never changed lanes, what rule did he break? 100% the cyclists fault.

 

[HarryB]

The car driver never changed lanes, what rule did he break? 100% the cyclists fault.

Are you saying he didn't move across to the left or that didn't complete the lane change? If you are saying he didn't move across to the left I need my eyes checking as it looks quite clear. If he did move and I am pretty sure most people think this is true, why did he not check his mirror for 6 seconds? It would have saved the accident and he would have looked like the good guy.

Ps there is no white line line at this point but looking at it again it still looks he steals part of the inside lane - either way if I had done that I would have taken at least part of the responsibility for not looking and turning at the last minute (but perhaps that is just me).

 

[Jimod]

Are you saying he didn't move across to the left or that didn't complete the lane change? If you are saying he didn't move across to the left I need my eyes checking as it looks quite clear. If he did move and I am pretty sure most people think this is true, why did he not check his mirror for 6 seconds? It would have saved the accident and he would have looked like the good guy.

Ps there is no white line line at this point but looking at it again it still looks he steals part of the inside lane - either way if I had done that I would have taken at least part of the responsibility for not looking and turning at the last minute (but perhaps that is just me).

I said he never changed lanes. There is no white line splitting lanes where the collision occurred except for the cycle lane and the cyclist wasn't in the cycle lane. If there are no white lines then there is no inside or outside lanes, there is only one lane.

 

[HarryB]

There are two lanes as the traffic flow shows. There are no white lines as it is at the junction, which is usual. I cannot see any markings to show either lane is merging into the other.

 

[SRS]

The guy with the camera had good and sensible road positioning.
Had the cyclist taken a lesson from him the incident would not have happened.

If he does not change his ways and attitude to moving traffic it will happen again and again.

 

[flecc]

And there is also a point which no-one has mentioned, the road safety rule never to overtake on a junction, which the cyclist clearly intended.

Looking at it yet again, there was no viable gap for the cyclist to overtake the bus anyway, and the cyclist was recognising that by pausing slightly to drop back, but he was paying attention to the bus at that point and was probably momentarily unaware that he was far too close to the car.

He should never have headed for that dangerous gap, but having made that decision the responsibility to cope with it's eventualities was his. It's not relevant that the cyclist was conceivably approaching in the car's n/s mirror for six seconds, a driver cannot in a glance tell that such a small target is going faster or going to come up alongside in an attempt to overtake on the left.

The cyclist was travelling much faster than the car and only reached half way alongside it at the point of collision.

Watch the video carefully and you will see that on the approach there is a white line between the lanes and the cyclist started to ride over it. At the point of impact the car was still completely in the outer half of the road width on that side and the cyclist's handlebars were overlapping into the outer width.
.

 

[HarryB]

And there is also a point which no-one has mentioned, the road safety rule never to overtake on a junction, which the cyclist clearly intended.

Looking at it yet again, there was no viable gap for the cyclist to overtake the bus anyway, and the cyclist was recognising that by pausing slightly to drop back, but he was paying attention to the bus at that point and was probably momentarily unaware that he was far too close to the car.

He should never have headed for that dangerous gap, but having made that decision the responsibility to cope with it's eventualities was his. It's not relevant that the cyclist was conceivably approaching in the car's n/s mirror for six seconds, a driver cannot in a glance tell that such a small target is going faster or going to come up alongside in an attempt to overtake on the left.

The cyclist was travelling much faster than the car and only reached half way alongside it at the point of collision.

Watch the video carefully and you will see that on the approach there is a white line between the lanes and the cyclist started to ride over it. At the point of impact the car was still completely in the outer half of the road width on that side and the cyclist's handlebars were overlapping into the outer width.
.

Haven't most of us agreed that the cyclist was riding badly?

 

[HarryB]

The guy with the camera had good and sensible road positioning.
Had the cyclist taken a lesson from him the incident would not have happened.

If he does not change his ways and attitude to moving traffic it will happen again and again.

100% agreed and was going to post the same. Clearly a very experienced rider. Any idea why he feels the need to film his journey, purely entertainment I expect?

 

[SRS]

Haven't most of us agreed that the cyclist was riding badly?

Yep most of us have and it demonstrates that those who instantly blame the motorist can often be wrong in their assumptions.

 

[Clockwise]

I have been busy today so everyone has run away with the idea that the car goes left but I'm really worried about these new cars that can go left without the front wheels turning left, I looked multiple times and can't see any movement in the front wheels to suggest the car is going left in the slightest.

 

[jackhandy]

I've been thinking the same, Clockwise. Thought it was me missing that bit of footage.

Like I said - It's interesting to note what others "see".

 

[Mike63]

I'm just glad that I don't live somewhere like that.... It must be a nightmare for cyclists

I travel miles out of my way to avoid traffic but I'm constantly in bother, just yesterday a car overtakes me quite unnecessarily, to turn right in 100 yards, can't make the turn because of approaching traffic, the car following comes through the available space without a care...took the skin off my teeth.
when they do for me, I just hope they do it right....don't put me in a wheelchair

 

[HarryB]

I have been busy today so everyone has run away with the idea that the car goes left but I'm really worried about these new cars that can go left without the front wheels turning left, I looked multiple times and can't see any movement in the front wheels to suggest the car is going left in the slightest.

You have got amazing eyesight to see the wheels "not moving" through the cyclist. Can't see that at all and I am glad I am not an accident investigator (actually I am glad you aren't one either).

 

[flecc]

I travel miles out of my way to avoid traffic but I'm constantly in bother, just yesterday a car overtakes me quite unnecessarily, to turn right in 100 yards, can't make the turn because of approaching traffic, the car following comes through the available space without a care...took the skin off my teeth.

Yes, they do that and worse Mike, which is why we can't rely on drivers for our cycling safety.

Bikes, milk floats and tractors don't mix comfortable with other motor traffic but the width of the others makes them safer. Sometimes we have to be that width too by taking a dominant position to prevent others forcing through, something I routinely do. Sure, the odd idiot will start blasting their horn, but I just take no notice and carry on.

If you are constantly in bother as you say but are riding sensibly, are you taking the road space you are entitled to? If you are ahead of someone else, the whole lane is yours, you are not obliged to move to an edge of a lane as the highway code makes clear in Rule 163:

give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car (see Rules 211 to 213).

That means they cannot share and dominate your lane by passing within it's width, they must move at least partly out of it to give you safe clearance as they pass.
.

 

[SRS]

Flecc

Defensive riding is what you are talking about. It would appear that a great many cyclists do not understand the techniques associated with this style of riding.

It does take positive action and some nerve at times but does increase safety massively. How can this stye of riding be promoted, any ideas?

 

[MikeyBikey]

Since video is popular, here's one from LCC blog that linked to Guardian, enjoy!;-)
Shows guy on CS2 nearly get side-swiped by van undertaking another vehicle by going into the bike/bus lane. Mikey. A cyclist's view of London's notorious Cycle Superhighway 2 - video | Life and style | theguardian.com.