Fast Legal Bike

[Deleted member 4366]

All those old mopeds have gone up in value as collectible items. Most of the cheaper ones need a lot of work, then re-registration and MOT. I was thinking of converting one a while ago, but it seemed too much hassle and cost.

 

[Kenny]

Wouldn't any good mountain bike or a steel framed touring bike be suitable?

Were only talking about 30mph here and these bikes are strongly built to withstand a lot of stress.
.
If using a hardtail, a fair sized box can be fabricated to fit the frame triangle for a battery, like Dave has done previously on his twin motored bike.

 

[Stalkingcat]

Wouldn't any good mountain bike or a steel framed touring bike be suitable?

The point is, trying to find an already registered frame to build up instead of going through the arduous task of registering a bicycle build as Warrah has done.

 

[Kenny]

Oops! missed that completely

Thanks for putting me right!

 

[Stalkingcat]

No problem

Does anyone know of the insurance and test implications of buying a petrol scooter/motorbike and changing it to electric?

 

[trex]

I don't think you can. The original frame would have been registered using the certificate of conformity issued by the petrol bike manufacturer.
If you modify the bike, you invalidate the CoC, you'd be riding an illegal bike.
warrah's approach is the best and cheapest way unless you import a Chinese bike with EU issued CoC.

 

[JohnCade]

No problem

Does anyone know of the insurance and test implications of buying a petrol scooter/motorbike and changing it to electric?

Best check the yougov website. My first guess is that what you would be doing would be like putting a different engine in a car or bike so no need for further testing. But having said that I think they have tightened up the laws there and you might need to take it to a testing station to have it looked over.

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/radically-altered-vehicles

 

[selrahc1992]

I don't think you can. The original frame would have been registered using the certificate of conformity issued by the petrol bike manufacturer.
If you modify the bike, you invalidate the CoC, you'd be riding an illegal bike.
warrah's approach is the best and cheapest way unless you import a Chinese bike with EU issued CoC.

that triggered a slightly polyana train of thought (apologies if this is a complete tangent) - g-wiz's (going-green) are very very cheap at the moment (around £1000), moreso when running on defunct lead batteries, the spec of which is 48V 200 Ah http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REVAi how difficult could it possibly be to shoehorn 20 16000mAh 6S lipos froom hobbyking (44V, 160Ah, £1600) in and have a light as good as new electric vehicle?

 

[trex]

JC posted a very valid point, the engine counts only for 1 point in this list

DVLA uses a points system to decide what registration number to give a radically altered vehicle.

Keep the original registration number
Your vehicle must have 8 or more points from the table below if you want to keep the original registration number. 5 of these points must come from having the original or new and unmodified chassis, monocoque bodyshell or frame.

Part Points
Chassis, monocoque bodyshell (body and chassis as one unit) or frame - original or new and unmodified (direct from manufacturer) 5
Suspension (front and back) - original 2
Axles (both) - original 2
Transmission - original 2
Steering assembly - original 2
Engine - original 1

It follows that the process of replacing the motor of a petrol moped may be worth looking into.

 

[flecc]

I still think there may be a problem Trex. The original is in class liable for VED while the resulting e-vehicle isn't.

Only re-registering could sort that.
.

 

[D8ve]

Good spot Selrahc the gwiz with lithium would be faster and more comfortable on road and a lot less than a some new bikes.

 

[JamesW]

even provisional license? ive been riding around on these high powered ebikes with just a CBT for years

Yup, if you are disqualified from driving under medical grounds, that is it.
e.g.
Would you want someone driving a [insert vehicle here] on a provisional license who would have been disqualified due to:
a) eyesight
b) a heart condition
c) a neurological condition

and hitting you - or worse ploughing into a crowd of children outside of the school gates?

That is why I'm restricted to 15mph assisted until I meet the criteria again! Less speed and mass = less chance of causing damage to others who can't get out of the way and the damage should be less too. Most of the risk cycling is to me!

 

[Deleted member 4366]

If you're disqualified for any reason, you can't get a provisional licence.

 

[JamesW]

If you're disqualified for any reason, you can't get a provisional licence.

Yup - I seem to have taken a roundabout way of failing to make my point (as always) and d8veh has used straight talk to set the record straight better than me!

 

[warrah]

Updated price, this is now £1000. Doesnt look like anyone wants it, havent even had any offers, so i'll try to make the price the best thing about it.

 

[4bound]

I agree with you selrahc1992. By slightly illegal I take it you refer to the S-pedelec type of bike. The point is, I think, that these bikes are still slower than what many athletic people can and do achieve on their road bikes with a lot of training, effort and sweat!
Of course the 1500W bikes are a different matter altogether and if a crackdown is to come surely these will be the target.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I agree with you selrahc1992. By slightly illegal I take it you refer to the S-pedelec type of bike. The point is, I think, that these bikes are still slower than what many athletic people can and do achieve on their road bikes with a lot of training, effort and sweat!

No I don't think so. Even Lance Armstrong can't do 45 kph up steep hills and we now know what kind of petrol he is running on... A reasonably fit rider on an adequate s-pedelec should be able to maintain speeds comparable to a road bike, it all depends on gearing. Think of all the energy you will not be using to get to 45 kph, you have that in reserve to pedal up to 60 kph. You dont even have to pedal to get to 20 kph with the launch button feature!

Tony

 

[Nealh]

I agree with you selrahc1992. By slightly illegal I take it you refer to the S-pedelec type of bike. The point is, I think, that these bikes are still slower than what many athletic people can and do achieve on their road bikes with a lot of training, effort and sweat!

Until you have ridden one you cannot speculate what can and cannot be achieved. The Kalkhof S-ped I rode was easy to get to 25 a bit more effort to 30 and with a little more puff over 30 and I'm 50 with asthma.

 

[4bound]

AnotherKiwi - the S-Ped will not take a "normal" rider up a steep hill at 45kph either. The 350 watts will only move weight up hill at a certain pace, whatever it is limited to. Don't forget that the wind resistance is increasing by the square of your speed, so the extra power to get from 45kph to 60kph is colossal compared with 0 to 15. ( 60 sq - 45 sq = 1575, whereas 15 sq = 225)
Nealh, it wasn't idle speculation without riding one. I based my comment on riding my S-Ped and uploading the times ( very briefly!) to Strava. I certainly moved up the tables dramatically from my usual level, but my point is that this put me amongst the faster riders, not way ahead of them. So the speeds I was doing were no greater than others can achieve anyway. I seriously doubt that any of the people who can ride at those sort of speeds are going to hop on an assisted bike any time soon.
25 or 30 mph is quite achievable by the athletes on Strava.

I should say that I then deleted the ride from Strava before I upset anyone!

For those who are not familiar with Strava let me explain it records the details of your ride and then compares you time over "segments" with anyone else who has done that segment. These segments are just sections of road of varying length, they can be uphill, downhill, flat, short, long - whatever.

If anyone is interested, here is a link to my Strava account - I should say all these rides are on a bike with no assistance. You will see I have entered my ebike rides manually so they do not record any segment times. https://www.strava.com/athletes/690735


If you would like to examine this more take a look at http://www.exploratorium.edu/cycling/aerodynamics1.html

According to this doing 30 mph on the flat requires 317 watts ( including many assumptions about position, streamlining etc). If you increase the speed to 45 this goes to 1071 watts. I would suggest that if you compare a S Pedelec rider with a trained athlete on a modern road bike, the 350 watts will be needed just to overcome the extra drag from his less aerodynamic position, before you allow for the difference in muscle power.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I was extrapolating that s-pedelecs do live up to the marketing hype and that a motor of over 500W + 150W of fit rider were on tap. And with pedalling in the right gear, uphill speeds up to maximum assisted speed should be attainable WOT? There are very few road frame s-pedelecs on the market I give you that.

Yes I do know about the extra force required to reach 60 kph. As a young man I rode a racing bike to work and back (including lunch break at home) about 15 km there and back from memory so 30 k or more every day. I was regularly clocked at +60 kph on that flat straight street. There were no speedos back then, it was admirative car drivers who gave me my speed when they caught up with me at the lights. Yes 60 kph was the legal limit in town back then. No, helmets hadn't been invented... Nor had hydraulic or even disk brakes and don't start me on racing tyres of that period...

EDIT: found one in metrics ! http://www.gribble.org/cycling/power_v_speed.html My god I was a strong young man!

EDIT 2: it can be done with a 1000W s-pedelec (5% gradient)

Cheers
Tony