Just click the little smiley and they appear. I'm only messing.
Drat hit the limiter last night and the bunch pounced on me
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Failed on my first big hill
- Thread starter KevinMull
- Start date
Drat hit the limiter last night and the bunch pounced on me
Fair enough...I was about to answer one point, but as you're ignoring us there's little point
but seriously I think he'd say try both, it's impossible to predict which bike someone will like, and then over time just to compound the decision a change in a riders fitness could mean a different system now suits them better than they started out.
But ( I always have a but) it does seem sort of putting cart before horse when a rider buys an ebike and is told to get best from it he needs to be fitter..many folk simply cant, or dont want to, get fitter.
We saying they shouldn't tackle long rides with steep climbs ??
Wife has zero intention of getting fitter ( bike is almost tricking her into doing it)
We went around a 20 mile moderate ride yesterday. I was in eco, she was in highest setting. I just kept up. Her 2nd ride in 25 years...bike was amazing. ( an 8 speed hub geared/ Bosch cd unit. Absolutely no issues on hills.)
Is that because bike suits her or Bosch cd is brilliant ?? Who knows?
My smilie
See nowt appears ???
That's why I said could
I'm with you. but this thread goes to show there are people out there who buy bikes that don't live up to their requirements and expectations. I have my own views as to why, but that's me speculating.
D
Deleted member 4366
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How on Earth did you come to that conclusion? It seems to me that when facts don't fit your own unfounded theories, you make up facts to justify them.
Who are these racing cyclists on the forum that only ride short fast rides? Please name them so that we can have a laugh.
I agree Flud, it's so difficult, and TBH I try and keep out as much as possible nowadays.
The posted review was sent to me after a conversation in which she told me that her husband could not keep up with her "in the hills", he was riding a Bosch Performance ebike, I would be happy to tell you which one in a PM.
We spent nearly two years putting together our new Wisper Torque drive system. It's designed for the UK and Europe, with a low top speed (just over the 15.5mph +10% max) but with loads of grunt at lower speeds. We perfected it still further in the Mk2 version.
We commissioned the algorithms that run our system in 2014 and I believe by using our software, sine wave controller, a particularly good, very small and powerful hub motor with the correct gearing (costing us nearly double the price of a low-end hub motor), a sensitive torque sensor that works on both pedals, coupled with an internal cadence sensor, we have something quite special.
I was trying to create a silent system with enough "umph" and intelligence to cope with most conditions. I think we are pretty well there. For instance, when the bike is at standstill the cadence sensor recognises this, so instructs the system to give a much more powerful boost through the torque sensor making hill starts etc very easy. I also needed to consider expense, it had to be a system that was less expensive than a CD.
What we have achieved is a bike that doesn't feel like a standard cadence censored hub drive bike, it feels a lot more like a CD but with smoother gear change and hardly any motor noise, you can just about hear it on start up then it fades away completely. The fact that the motor is behind the rider further reduces the motor noise and quite honestly I cannot hear it when riding. I also wanted to create a discrete electric bike, some people don't want others to know they are on an ebike. With panniers fitted, you could hardly tell it's electric. No big battery on the down tube or motor housing around the BB. Through the savings we have made by not using a CD we have been able to use battery with nearly 400Wh, a superb set of frames with 10 year warranties, hydraulic brakes, a decent cassette rear cluster, a powerful hi torque motor, etc, etc and all for £1,499.00 SRP.
I am not saying it is better than a CD, as I have said previously I absolutely love the Bosch performance and particularly the XC version, it's brilliant.
Our bikes are simply different.
As to which bike is better for the OP I really could not say. it is completely a matter of choice. Of course for nearly £6,000 we could supply a beautiful Riese & Muller Delite with Fox CDT remote, a Bosch performance XC motor etc and that is certainly a better bike. But for sub £1,500 I think he has made a good choice.
All the best, and thanks for the opportunity to explain.
David
If you'd been a long time in this forum you'd know that the people you are criticising regularly tell others to try before buying, stressing how essential that is. I even plead with them to spend time and money, if necessary travelling long distances to do that, to avoid wasting money with an incorrect first buy.
I know you stubbornly don't wish to accept it, but large numbers after trying prefer hub motors, and for many of them it really is the best choice in their circumstances. If you want me to explain why that is, I'll happily explain.
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hub drives are cheaper to buy and cheaper to replace.
Hill climbing ability depends essentially on how much power the controller will draw from your battery.
Most people would be happy with a 6-FET 15A controller but if you have big hills, select a bike with a 9-FET 20A controller. For in between, select a 6-FET 18A controller.
Hill climbing ability depends essentially on how much power the controller will draw from your battery.
Most people would be happy with a 6-FET 15A controller but if you have big hills, select a bike with a 9-FET 20A controller. For in between, select a 6-FET 18A controller.
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And also easy to service, repair or refurbish when worn, something that is between difficult and impossible with most crank units.
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Another 2p
Being the owner of both types, I have to say that I prefer riding the hub motor,
particularly when changing gears.
My only wish is that the hub motor be a better hill climber.
There have been suggestions that swapping my 8-fun for a BPM might do the trick, then a 2 speed Xionda, now a 9FET controller.
Baffled.
Being the owner of both types, I have to say that I prefer riding the hub motor,
particularly when changing gears.
My only wish is that the hub motor be a better hill climber.
There have been suggestions that swapping my 8-fun for a BPM might do the trick, then a 2 speed Xionda, now a 9FET controller.
Baffled.
Run of the mill implementations of the standard Bafang motors are not great hill climbers. They are fine in the less demanding parts of the country where the steepest hill is about 10% and most are less.
But if more serious hills are to be tackled, a BPM or it's rear wheel CST equivalent are far better. Other good alternatives are the Ezee motor and the very capable Panasonic rear hub motor.
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Ofcourse Hub drives suit some people, GTech single speed town bike will suit many absolutely fine but its plain wrong to claim a hub motor of equal power ( ie 250w) can compete on 2 issues
A) Long sustained climbing
B) Suiting a broad spectrum of people.
Assuming a hub drive is a good climber because in theory its 2 speed hub can keep motor in its efficient range completely misses point why motors ( especially under powered ones) need a gearbox.
A 250w motor produces around 4 nm at its output shaft . A CD unit can call on way lower ratio in order to step up that 4nm to over that required at back wheel when either rider is worn out or on a steep steep climb. The hub has to develop that required torque electrically. If it does not it will not climb. Either way the hub looses out. It either draws way more current affecting range or it stops...which is exactly what happened to OP.
On CD he,d stick bike in lowest gear, twiddle and lower ratio available to motor would keep current at an achievable level.
Bringing in torque sensor and fitness are pure red herrings.
What's point of buying a £1500 ebike and been told get fit to use it.
Barmy.
A) Long sustained climbing
B) Suiting a broad spectrum of people.
Assuming a hub drive is a good climber because in theory its 2 speed hub can keep motor in its efficient range completely misses point why motors ( especially under powered ones) need a gearbox.
A 250w motor produces around 4 nm at its output shaft . A CD unit can call on way lower ratio in order to step up that 4nm to over that required at back wheel when either rider is worn out or on a steep steep climb. The hub has to develop that required torque electrically. If it does not it will not climb. Either way the hub looses out. It either draws way more current affecting range or it stops...which is exactly what happened to OP.
On CD he,d stick bike in lowest gear, twiddle and lower ratio available to motor would keep current at an achievable level.
Bringing in torque sensor and fitness are pure red herrings.
What's point of buying a £1500 ebike and been told get fit to use it.
Barmy.
I'm climbing much steeper than that in bath this week. Scott sub. Nae bother. In first to 4th gear depending on the speed. 10 to 14% gradients.
Sent from my Lenovo YT3-850F using Tapatalk
Sent from my Lenovo YT3-850F using Tapatalk
If it's at the end of a long day the battery will output at eco mode even if high is displayed? Same applies to humans!
Sent from my Lenovo YT3-850F using Tapatalk
Sent from my Lenovo YT3-850F using Tapatalk
Like 72 km Zarautz - Saint-Jean-de-Luz in just over 3 hours for example?
As for hub motors don't have gears what are the 7 cogs hanging off the side of mine?
But we are not saying that. The 250 watt rating is purely nominal for legal purposes, virtually all e-bikes put out far more than that as I've already explained. Even that you argued with, wrongly.
What we are saying is that there are hub motors that do compete in those circumstances, making your sweeping statements about CD superiority wrong. Those that compete are the high power hub motors designed for high torque in hill climbing. I've explained that in several ways, but you are trying to wriggle it back to an equal motor situation which none of us have said.
Faced with hills there's a simple choice:
1) Limited power used through low gears to climb slowly.
2) Single geared high power to climb more rapidly.
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You know exactly what was meant...dont pretend to be thick...but then again ???
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