Failed on my first big hill

I went out on my maiden trip at the weekend on my shiny (now muddy!) new Wisper 905 Torque and I failed miserably to get up my first major hill. I'd only done about 100 yards and ran out of steam so had to give up the ghost and walk up using walk mode

Ditto the above for my brother with a Scott Sub Tour.

Location:

Cromford Hill (B5036), Derbyshire, 12% gradient increasing to 17%, 1 mile long

Google maps

If anyone's familiar with The High Peak Trail in the Peak district then the incline is similar to the beginning/end of the trail at from Cromford up to Middleton Top.

Me:

50 years, 13 stone, average fitness.

I was in the highest assist mode in the lowest gear with about half power of battery remaining.

It was at the end of about 20 miles cycling on the trail and around Matlock.

Am I asking too much of the bike at this gradient or is just my lack of fitness or simply not quite used to the bike and the different techniques required for an e-bike?

We were frustrated to say the least as we had ambitions of doing the hills in the Lake District for the first time. After this then maybe we need a rethink and were being over optimistic of what the bikes and ourselves are capable of

That looks kind of steep even on Google Earth photos. Then it doesn't look much steeper than the climb up from Behobie on the D180.

Age has nothing to do with things, weight and fitness yes. 82 kg isn't overweight, I am 78 kg and my unfit weight is 81 kg. "Average fitness" doesn't exist, we all have a fit or unfit level which is individual.

What was your cadence? In lowest gear and spinning at 60 or above?

What gearing do you have on the back?

That looks kind of steep even on Google Earth photos. Then it doesn't look much steeper than the climb up from Behobie on the D180.

 

Age has nothing to do with things, weight and fitness yes. 82 kg isn't overweight, I am 78 kg and my unfit weight is 81 kg. "Average fitness" doesn't exist, we all have a fit or unfit level which is individual.

 

What was your cadence? In lowest gear and spinning at 60 or above?

 

What gearing do you have on the back?

Not sure what my cadence was, but in lowest gear and not spinning that fast.

8 gears derailleur.

The reviewer of this bike on Pedelecs did a 12% gradient several times and in different modes!

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/electric-bike-reviews/wisper-905-torque-review/

Edited April 12, 201610 yr by KevinMull

A big high torque hub Ezee etc. or a mid drive WITH the correct gearing.

A cadence detecting mid drive (BBS01) will climb at low speed the hill you describe with no rider input if geared low enough.

After looking up Strava (below) are you sure you had not just over done the ride and had nothing left in the riders tank to assist the motors?

https://www.strava.com/segments/618602

Big hills are where the humble throttle shines.

I find a throttle adds no benefit at all to hill climbing.

the throttle delivers 100% motor power while you can rest up your legs.

TS bikes can't deliver 100% power if you are too tired to pedal hard.

the throttle delivers 100% motor power while you can rest up your legs.

TS bikes can't deliver 100% power if you are too tired to pedal hard.

But a cadence sensor bike can deliver full power by turning the pedals with zero effort and a low rpm.

And since a throttle is now illegal...

both bikes that failed to get up that big hill were TS.

The OP would have flatten that big hill on an Ezee.

Throttles are tolerated on new bikes until 1/1/2018.

both bikes that failed to get up that big hill were TS.

The OP would have flatten that big hill on an Ezee.

Throttles are tolerated on new bikes until 1/1/2018.

I didn't pick up the op's own bike was a TS.

Nice news about the throttles, they are already no longer fitting them (or limiting to 6 kph) down here.

OP maybe see if a throttle can be retro fitted in that case.

Me:

50 years, 13 stone, average fitness.

I was in the highest assist mode in the lowest gear with about half power of battery remaining.

It was at the end of about 20 miles cycling on the trail and around Matlock.

You need to be very fit to ride a torque sensor bike up hills, along the flat they will give you a good workout but to get the best out of them you need to pedal continuously, tired legs or lack of energy will show up their short comings. The TS bikes only reflect the effort you can put in.

TS for athletic types for hill climbing and for any one on level ground other wise cadence sensing bikes for both with good gearing.

I am of a similar age and weight bar half a stone and have ridden a TS s-ped and it certainly gave me a good work out but decided it was not for me.

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I went out on my maiden trip at the weekend on my shiny (now muddy!) new Wisper 905 Torque and I failed miserably to get up my first major hill. I'd only done about 100 yards and ran out of steam so had to give up the ghost and walk up using walk mode

 

Ditto the above for my brother with a Scott Sub Tour.

 

Location:

Cromford Hill (B5036), Derbyshire, 12% gradient increasing to 17%, 1 mile long

Google maps

If anyone's familiar with The High Peak Trail in the Peak district then the incline is similar to the beginning/end of the trail at from Cromford up to Middleton Top.

 

Me:

50 years, 13 stone, average fitness.

I was in the highest assist mode in the lowest gear with about half power of battery remaining.

It was at the end of about 20 miles cycling on the trail and around Matlock.

 

Am I asking too much of the bike at this gradient or is just my lack of fitness or simply not quite used to the bike and the different techniques required for an e-bike?

 

We were frustrated to say the least as we had ambitions of doing the hills in the Lake District for the first time. After this then maybe we need a rethink and were being over optimistic of what the bikes and ourselves are capable of

I'm the same age and weight roughly, my bike won't be quite as powerful as the Scott (KTM Macina cross) but I'd have no trouble up there.

I could actually ride up on 1/2 power (Tour)

Just keep riding them, and avoid the steepest climbs for a while, you'll get there.

I often come across people who think my bike is doing all the work, I know that's not true and your post shows that.

ETA, You say you're average fitness, which I find interesting, I had always thought that anyone of average fitness would have no trouble, I may have to reconsider that view.

Edited April 12, 201610 yr by Artstu

maybe we need a rethink and were being over optimistic of what the bikes and ourselves are capable of

That is the case, ultimately it's about the very limited power of legal e-bike motors. It's around a third to a half of a horse power at hill climbing speeds with an average rider, and the technical 746 watts per horse power represents a rather small horse.

Even a whole medium size real horse can find it a bit tough carrying a rider up a 12% and will often struggle on a 17%.

You need to make up the difference by persisting in order to get more fit and meanwhile, as others have said, use a cadence sensing bike to allow it to help at it's best even when you are struggling. Once fit enough, a torque sensing bike will also be ok.

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Thanks for all the replies. I didn't realise the differences between TS and CS bikes. I naively assumed that it would get me up most hills within reason.

The hill did come after a fairly moderate 20 mile ride with less than half battery charge left (same for both bikes).

We mainly bought the bikes for leisure rides and with 'moderate' hills in mind as we were struggling to get up hills on our old unassisted bikes and not enjoying the rides anymore. This hill was extreme and am hoping it/i'll manage lesser inclines. The reviewer on Pedelecs did a 12% grad with no problems so I guess it comes down to fitness like others have said.

The whole ride was about 40 miles and at the end did feel like we'd done a bit of a workout in the gym but in an enjoyable way (Other than the said hill !) and not as a hard painful slog which it would have been with on our old bikes.

So, for our kind of 'leisurely' riding, have we bought the wrong (TS) kind of bikes?

Thanks for all the replies. I didn't realise the differences between TS and CS bikes. I naively assumed that it would get me up most hills within reason.

 

The hill did come after a fairly moderate 20 mile ride with less than half battery charge left (same for both bikes).

 

We mainly bought the bikes for leisure rides and with 'moderate' hills in mind as we were struggling to get up hills on our old unassisted bikes and not enjoying the rides anymore. This hill was extreme and am hoping it/i'll manage lesser inclines. The reviewer on Pedelecs did a 12% grad with no problems so I guess it comes down to fitness like others have said.

 

The whole ride was about 40 miles and at the end did feel like we'd done a bit of a workout in the gym but in an enjoyable way (Other than the said hill !) and not as a hard painful slog which it would have been with on our old bikes.

 

So, for our kind of 'leisurely' riding, have we bought the wrong (TS) kind of bikes?

One of the good things about a quality torque sensor bike is they ride like an ordinary bicycle.

As a cyclist, you should appreciate that.

I know I do on my Bosch bikes, although I've not tried a recent Wisper.

As you've discovered, with a torque sensor bike you can't go and beast every bank first time out - you have to build us some fitness.

Again, it's like ordinary cycling.

You might have the wrong bikes if you were hopping off at every incline.

The fail on the steep bit was probably disappointing, but not worth worrying about too much.

As Stu said, do a few rides avoiding the steepest hills, then have another whack at the one that beat you.

You might not get to the top, but I'm sure you will get further up it.

 

ETA, You say you're average fitness, which I find interesting, I had always thought that anyone of average fitness would have no trouble, I may have to reconsider that view.

The OP and his brother's bikes make the assessment harder.

I've not tried a Wisper torque sensor bike.

The other bike to fail the hill - the Scott - has the Shimano Steps system.

I've not tried one of those, but my sister-in-law has one, and is a bit disappointed with its power after testing my Bosch bikes.

Partly my fault, I did tell her they would be 'about the same'.

As flecc says, no legal ebike is a ball of fire, but I wonder if the OP and brother would have done better if they were on Bosch, Yamaha or Kallhoff Evo bikes.

The OP and his brother's bikes make the assessment harder.

 

I've not tried a Wisper torque sensor bike.

 

The other bike to fail the hill - the Scott - has the Shimano Steps system.

 

I've not tried one of those, but my sister-in-law has one, and is a bit disappointed with its power after testing my Bosch bikes.

 

Partly my fault, I did tell her they would be 'about the same'.

 

As flecc says, no legal ebike is a ball of fire, but I wonder if the OP and brother would have done better if they were on Bosch, Yamaha or Kallhoff Evo bikes.

Ah didn't realise it was Steps on the Scott.

KTM raced a Steps bike against a Pro rider up Holme Moss, they then asked for guesses on who won, but then never bothered to reveal the result.

I am missing something here, doesn't a torque sensor provide more power the harder you push on the pedals? That is what a rider does and so the much touted "natural" feel of a TS bike should work the same way. And at speed the lesser pressure means I need less power.

Please explain.

So, for our kind of 'leisurely' riding, have we bought the wrong (TS) kind of bikes?

Don't worry too much about the bike type, you will get fitter as you persist and the bikes wil be ok then. Don't forget that though you felt you were reasonably fit already, that was not cycling fit, since cycling uses different muscle sets than those used in other activities.

You'll soon be storming up the shorter 12% hills and managing on the long ones. As for the 17% and worse, they aren't exactly easy for any e-biker on a legal bike.

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Don't worry too much about the bike type, you will get fitter as you persist and the bikes wil be ok then. Don't forget that though you felt you were reasonably fit already, that was not cycling fit, since cycling uses different muscle sets than those used in other activities.

 

You'll soon be storming up the shorter 12% hills and managing on the long ones. As for the 17% and worse, they aren't exactly easy for any e-biker on a legal bike.

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Thanks, it was our first ride of the season and first long ride ever on an e-bike so I think we were expecting too much from the bikes. Think we need to get some more rides in and more experience with e-bikes.

Don't believe a word Flecc says, legal e-bikes make easy work of any hill. Although my idea of easy probably isn't the same as most people's idea of easy .

The front wheel is turning here because the front wheel kept popping up in the air as the bike tried to wheelie.

This segments on cobbles too, and just at the steepest bit. http://www.strava.com/segments/1343106

I make it look easy.

My photo doesn't capture the steepness very well, lots of these do though https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8n5j0pjjvgjy3bw/AAB49iXGx2yNTmDZMrjStL6za?dl=0

Edited April 12, 201610 yr by Artstu

Thanks, it was our first ride of the season and first long ride ever on an e-bike so I think we were expecting too much from the bikes. Think we need to get some more rides in and more experience with e-bikes.

I'm sure that's true, I often get relatively unfit over the winter period and struggle at first in the Spring, but a month of two later with more regular riding sees me enjoying powering up hills at speed.

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Hi Kevin

I know Cromford Hill very well.

The Wisper uses a combination of Torque sensor and Cadence sensor. Above has been explained that, unlike a Cadence sensor the Torque sensor requires effort from you - and Cromford, after 20 miles of riding will test your fitness!

However, in the top power setting on that bike the Cadence sensor takes over everything, requiring no effort from you - at least that's how I understand how the latest Wispers operate, the Mark 2 (2016 model). It may be different on the 2015 bike you have.

Also you will need to go through 5 full charges on your new battery before it reaches its best condition - the range will improve during that time.

In my view, to tackle something like Cromford (I remember seeing the Tour bunch going up there), if you still have the energy use a lower setting and of course a lower gear. If you're out of ooomph and the battery has the charge then use the top-most setting and take advantage of the cadence sensor to do the vast majority of the work. But you will need the charge that battery will give as it conditions.

Perhaps asking David from Wisper his thoughts would help elaborate.

Don't believe a word Flecc says, legal e-bikes make easy work of any hill.

 

I make it look easy.

Exactly, you make it easy. If you don't put any pedal effort into a legal e-bike, few of them will climb anything over 10% and many can only make a 7%.

Legal e-bikes help, but riders still need to be cycling fit to tackle hills worthy of the name.

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