Those are still around Nick, but they're for 1/8th chain on single speed and hub gear bikes. Derailleur mechanisms would strip off the side clip of course.
Here's one
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Extending the Torq 1 gearing
- Thread starter Tiberius
- Start date
Here's one
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I get rusty on things too, but this site has helped to keep the memory going.
I'm having no problems with the SJS site, this is the home page link I'm using:
SJS
If you get any problem with that or navigating inside the site, deleting your cookies might clear the problem.
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That fixed it. Wierd. It won't let me look at a page I've been to before. Had to block cookies from that site.
Nick
What is the normal gearing range expected on a non-electric bike?
If I have my sums right (I assume the convention is the equivalent wheel diameter on a penny-farthing), then:
Standard Torq 1, with 52T front, 12-25 rear covers 58 to 121 inches.
With 52T front, 11-34 rear, it would be 43 to 132 inches
With 48T front, 11-34 rear, it would be 39.5 to 122 inches
Even with the last option, bottom gear puts a cadence of 80 at just over 9 mph, which still seems high geared to me.
Nick
If I have my sums right (I assume the convention is the equivalent wheel diameter on a penny-farthing), then:
Standard Torq 1, with 52T front, 12-25 rear covers 58 to 121 inches.
With 52T front, 11-34 rear, it would be 43 to 132 inches
With 48T front, 11-34 rear, it would be 39.5 to 122 inches
Even with the last option, bottom gear puts a cadence of 80 at just over 9 mph, which still seems high geared to me.
Nick
Yes, by normal club sport bike standards it is high gearing, but of course that assumes climbing under rider power only. With the motor power added the climb speed can be assumed to be much faster so the gearing then becomes a better match.
However the standard Torq 1 has not much useful power at 9 mph, so you'd be increasingly on your own then and struggling. If you gear it lower, the 80 cadence would occur at even lower speeds with nothing from the motor which would be of little use to you. As you know with that Torq, it's best to climb at over 12 mph to get useful motor power and you'd need the second or third gear then with that 48 and 34 to 11 tooth set, or bottom gear with a cadence of 107.
With a fully charged battery I can climb a short 22% (1 in 4.5) on the 52 to 34 tooth combination at a lower cadence on mine, though I've never noted the speed, but on my 14% home hill I prefer to take it as near to 12 mph as I can.
So really it's a balancing act for you. Either the higher gearing and getting useful motor help in all gears, or lower gearing and only able to use the lowest gear when the motor can no longer help. I prefer the first, since I've no desire to propel a Torq uphill on my own!
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However the standard Torq 1 has not much useful power at 9 mph, so you'd be increasingly on your own then and struggling. If you gear it lower, the 80 cadence would occur at even lower speeds with nothing from the motor which would be of little use to you. As you know with that Torq, it's best to climb at over 12 mph to get useful motor power and you'd need the second or third gear then with that 48 and 34 to 11 tooth set, or bottom gear with a cadence of 107.
With a fully charged battery I can climb a short 22% (1 in 4.5) on the 52 to 34 tooth combination at a lower cadence on mine, though I've never noted the speed, but on my 14% home hill I prefer to take it as near to 12 mph as I can.
So really it's a balancing act for you. Either the higher gearing and getting useful motor help in all gears, or lower gearing and only able to use the lowest gear when the motor can no longer help. I prefer the first, since I've no desire to propel a Torq uphill on my own!
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My 1st gear is 37.33" which I find acceptable for pedalling starts and as a total last resort to assist the motor on hills (with a high-ish cadence): a small step-up to 43" 2nd gear allows me to maintain cadence & speed on starts & climbs, if needed & if I'm careful.
My cadence is relatively high though, especially on gradients, and everyone's requirements are different, so I'd start by deciding what cadence you prefer, especially on hills if thats different, & then set the lowest gears accordingly - either to use with motor at minimum assist speeds, or lower if you want to use 1st without motor assist, though if you do that I'd make sure either the 1st or 2nd gear is well-matched to the minimum motor speed for climbing for your riding style/cadence, and consider how widely spaced you may want 1st & 2nd gears: some megarange have a big jump to last sprocket eg 26-32 or 26-34 which can be good for hills, but will only work with a motor if one of the two is well-matched to your pedal input on hills as said.
Hope thats helpful,
Stuart.
Thanks Stuart,
What gears are you using to get those? Certainly the big step between first and second with the megarange cassettes was worrying me.
As for cadence, when I used to go to the gym, I was doing 80 to 90 on the machines there.
Nick
A guess at what Stuart's using. 40" chainwheel with 30 tooth low and 26 tooth second gears on the cassette, was I right Stuart?
If so, that top gear with an 11 tooth high is 102" against the standard high of 122", which would suit a higher cadence Nick.
Just discovered that Shimano do a cassette as well as a freewheel both called HG50, very confusing. That cassette is 11 to 30 and close ratio steps:
Seen here
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If so, that top gear with an 11 tooth high is 102" against the standard high of 122", which would suit a higher cadence Nick.
Just discovered that Shimano do a cassette as well as a freewheel both called HG50, very confusing. That cassette is 11 to 30 and close ratio steps:
Seen here
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Yes, thats bang on, flecc.
40T chainwheel & Shimano HG40 11-30 at rear, alivio megarange compatible rear mech & 2 chainlinks removed, I think. I use the 12T from the original cassette in place of the 11T for top gear.
It works well for me but its all horses for courses and beware that in some mid-gears the 40T barely clears the unused V-brake mounting lugs on the chainstay, which I've heard are a bit awkward to remove so I haven't tried...
With the smaller chainwheel, 30T max is low enough for my local gradients without motor power if need be, or to assist the motor at 9-10mph at fairly high cadence if I'm really stuck on a steeper slope.
I'd check your normal cadence on the Torq though because I found mine to be rather higher than on my MTB for instance - 84rpm Torq, 72rpm MTB! I suspect its the hub motor friction automatically makes me pedal a bit faster for efficiency, but it helped with the gearing really in the end.
With 12T & higher cadence in top I can pedal close to the limit of motor assist
for very short bursts and you might find similarly at the other end of the gears that you get better power on hills in lowest gear with a high cadence, in which case a bigger step 1st to 2nd does make sense: it all depends on your individual style so there's no right or wrong, just what works best for you!
I chose my top gears close spaced and matched my cadence to top motor assist speed on the flat which does limit downhill pedalling speed: the compromise works ok for me in my flattish terrain but if you want higher 'downhill' gears much above 100" then you'll have to compromise your lower gears a bit.
If a medium to large jump from 1st to 2nd might suit, and you want higher top gears, you can afford to use a 32 or 34 largest sprocket and a larger front chainwheel for a similarly low 1st gear to mine as a 'get out' on the hills that are that bit too much, but with higher top gear the rest of the time:
e.g. 42T or 44T with 32T rear give 36.75" or 38.5" low and 108" or 112" top
or 45T/46T with 34T gives 37.5"/37.8" low & 114.5"/117" top
Those are for 11T smallest sprocket but they do tend to wear faster so I'm told.
I hope that helps in your choice,
Stuart.
40T chainwheel & Shimano HG40 11-30 at rear, alivio megarange compatible rear mech & 2 chainlinks removed, I think. I use the 12T from the original cassette in place of the 11T for top gear.
It works well for me but its all horses for courses and beware that in some mid-gears the 40T barely clears the unused V-brake mounting lugs on the chainstay, which I've heard are a bit awkward to remove so I haven't tried...
With the smaller chainwheel, 30T max is low enough for my local gradients without motor power if need be, or to assist the motor at 9-10mph at fairly high cadence if I'm really stuck on a steeper slope.
I'd check your normal cadence on the Torq though because I found mine to be rather higher than on my MTB for instance - 84rpm Torq, 72rpm MTB! I suspect its the hub motor friction automatically makes me pedal a bit faster for efficiency, but it helped with the gearing really in the end.
With 12T & higher cadence in top I can pedal close to the limit of motor assist
for very short bursts and you might find similarly at the other end of the gears that you get better power on hills in lowest gear with a high cadence, in which case a bigger step 1st to 2nd does make sense: it all depends on your individual style so there's no right or wrong, just what works best for you!
I chose my top gears close spaced and matched my cadence to top motor assist speed on the flat which does limit downhill pedalling speed: the compromise works ok for me in my flattish terrain but if you want higher 'downhill' gears much above 100" then you'll have to compromise your lower gears a bit.
If a medium to large jump from 1st to 2nd might suit, and you want higher top gears, you can afford to use a 32 or 34 largest sprocket and a larger front chainwheel for a similarly low 1st gear to mine as a 'get out' on the hills that are that bit too much, but with higher top gear the rest of the time:
e.g. 42T or 44T with 32T rear give 36.75" or 38.5" low and 108" or 112" top
or 45T/46T with 34T gives 37.5"/37.8" low & 114.5"/117" top
Those are for 11T smallest sprocket but they do tend to wear faster so I'm told.
I hope that helps in your choice,
Stuart.
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That HG40 of Stuart's is a megarange with the big step from bottom to second shown here Nick.
For closer ratio steps it's the HG50 mentioned in my previous post.
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For closer ratio steps it's the HG50 mentioned in my previous post.
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This naming system of Shimano cassettes is getting very confusing!
I read the code for my cassette off the box before and I've double-checked the code on the cassette itself and it says HYPERGLIDE HG CS-HG40-an and its definitely 11-13-15-17-20-23-26-30T cogs!
I got it from here which shows two sizes for HG40 - up to either 30 or 34T. Maybe the '-an' at the end differentiates it?
If I recall, there was an SRAM too up to 32T, but the gear spacing was different: 11-12-14-16-18-21-26-32 but I wanted 12-13-15-17T at the top to match certain cruising speeds.
The original cassette on my Torq was a Hyperglide CS-HG50 with 12-25T cogs.
Clear as mud?!
Stuart.
I read the code for my cassette off the box before and I've double-checked the code on the cassette itself and it says HYPERGLIDE HG CS-HG40-an and its definitely 11-13-15-17-20-23-26-30T cogs!
I got it from here which shows two sizes for HG40 - up to either 30 or 34T. Maybe the '-an' at the end differentiates it?
If I recall, there was an SRAM too up to 32T, but the gear spacing was different: 11-12-14-16-18-21-26-32 but I wanted 12-13-15-17T at the top to match certain cruising speeds.
The original cassette on my Torq was a Hyperglide CS-HG50 with 12-25T cogs.
Clear as mud?!
Stuart.
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It's that CS prefix that seems to be the distinguishing feature Stuart, that only being on the cassette version. The Freewheel version probably doesn't have the CS prefix.
I'm surprised the original Torq cassette was an HG50 as you say though, since the Torq had a 12 to 25 tooth cassette, and today's HG50 is shown as 11 to 30 tooth. I think this is the one for Nick though, since the ratios are a smooth progression with no jumps.
Shimano are quite weird with many of the things they do, endless duplication of types, and now it seems, duplicating product codes across quite different products.
The inscrutable Orient.
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I'm surprised the original Torq cassette was an HG50 as you say though, since the Torq had a 12 to 25 tooth cassette, and today's HG50 is shown as 11 to 30 tooth. I think this is the one for Nick though, since the ratios are a smooth progression with no jumps.
Shimano are quite weird with many of the things they do, endless duplication of types, and now it seems, duplicating product codes across quite different products.
The inscrutable Orient.
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Yes, as inscrutable as ever!The CS-HG50 I read from the threaded lockring thing that fits to the smallest cog, and the Sora RD-3300 rear mech 'technical service instructions' sheet that came with the bike recommends use with cassette sprocket CS-HG50-8.
I think the 12-25 cassette was intended for road bikes - hence the fairly close-spaced gears - & that may explain the same name - its from a different range ie road bikes?
Here is an HG50 8 speed 12-21, 23, or 25T from same shop... ::::::::::::
Now I remember why I got the first one I found that seemed to fit the bill... the guys in the shop couldn't even tell what they had in stock from the box codes!
Stuart.
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It's the reuse of 50 for different mixes and types that puzzles me. The HG is fine, since that stands for HyperGlide, their name for the patent sprocket side profiling that makes for smooth and slick gearchanges, so that will belong on all their multi-sprocket freewheels and cassettes.
Perhaps 50 is their lucky number.
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Perhaps 50 is their lucky number.
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PS Here is the HG50 I think you're referring to flecc? 11-30 or 32T
On the same page here are two more HG50 cassettes, 7 and 9 speed though...
SRAM also seem to like 50, they do a PG850 8 speed & PG950 9 speed, so almost the same naming logic as Shimano!
Good luck with choosing, Nick!
Stuart.
On the same page here are two more HG50 cassettes, 7 and 9 speed though...
SRAM also seem to like 50, they do a PG850 8 speed & PG950 9 speed, so almost the same naming logic as Shimano!
Good luck with choosing, Nick!
Stuart.
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