Extending the Torq 1 gearing

[Tiberius]

Hi Everyone,

I find that I regularly go through the full range of gears on my Torq 1 (its an 8 speed cassette). Top gear is about right but sometimes I could do with something lower than bottom gear.

Are there any easy ways of extending the range? For instance, is there a megarange replacement for the cassette? Is it possible to fit a double chainring system at the front?

Ideas anyone - I have worked out the best mounting point for rockets, so that one is already covered.

Nick

 

[flecc]

We had a long discussion on double chainwheels for this bike some while ago, but it's definitely out. There's hardly any clearance to the battery so the extra wheel would go outboard. Trouble is, the chainline is already only ok in top and in the lower gears it would be hopelessly compromised from an outer chainring.

A megarange is available though, here's an 8 speed 11 tooth to 34 tooth:

Bikeparts

You'll need a megarange compatible rear mechanism, and I use the Shimano Acera on both my bikes (one the ex torq T bike), very efficient:

Wiggle
.

 

[JamesC]

Hi Everyone,

I find that I regularly go through the full range of gears on my Torq 1 (its an 8 speed cassette). Top gear is about right but sometimes I could do with something lower than bottom gear.

Are there any easy ways of extending the range? For instance, is there a megarange replacement for the cassette? Is it possible to fit a double chainring system at the front?

Ideas anyone - I have worked out the best mounting point for rockets, so that one is already covered.

Nick

Nick - I know you are a strong rider, so I guess that the top gear that you like is still the standard 52 chainwheel driving the 12 tooth - the standard range at the back was 25 T down to 12 T.

Most of the decision taking that I did was to lower all the gearing by changing the 52 T chainwheel to 45 T and to fit an HG30 8 speed cassette which has 32 T down to 11 T (I can recommend Rutland Cycling which is close by me)

If you go for a 48 T chainwheel driving an 11 T top gear in the HG30, that would be about the same as your present 52 / 12 top gear.

Bottom gear 48 / 32 should be much easier.

You still need to change the SORA derailleur to cope with the 32T gear - I use the Alivio Long derailleur with the standard Torq levers and cable, as do several others.

James

 

[coops]

Hi Nick,

In addition to flecc & James' posts, I found when I changed rear cassette & mech that I could reuse the 12 tooth sprocket from the original 12-25 cassette in place of the 11 tooth of the replacement Shimano megarange cassette, giving me 12-13-15-17T- etc. sprockets.

That would keep your top gears unchanged without changing the chainwheel, though you would probably have to lengthen the chain to increase the largest rear sprocket size: you can possibly avoid that, and your new bottom gear would also be lower if, as James said, you also reduce the chainwheel size.

Also, I'm sure you're aware of this but, just in case, beware that lowering the rider gears on the Torq1 doesn't improve motor assist at lower speeds (eg below 10-12mph), only rider input at those speeds which is the main reason I did it.

Hope thats useful to you,

Stuart.

 

[Tiberius]

Thanks guys,

So clearly I'm not the first person to want to do this - thanks for passing on your experiences.

Yes, I do realise I'm only changing the rider gearing, but that's probably what I need in extremis. Ideally I want to keep the bike moving as fast as possible on the hills. Up to a certain slope this is dead easy, the combination of me and the motor can tackle reasonable hills.

A little aside here, I think I impressed a row of cars the other day. They all came to a grinding halt on the steepest hill in town here, when one of them tried to parallel park near the top. But I had seen it coming, switched sides and whizzed past them all on the outside.

But when the hill gets too steep, then both motor and rider come off the pace at the same time and it really does all fall apart very suddenly. I find myself standing on the pedals and struggling to maintain 9 mph.

Nick

 

[coops]

Not the first by a long way, Nick!

Lower gears can help you if you can put more legpower in when you pedal with higher rpm/cadence on those hills but as many Torq1 owners have found, the motor ain't able to help you much at those speeds & thats largely why it begins to fall apart...

I'd be happier pedalling at 70 or 80rpm on a lower gear in that situation though, than the 60rpm or less of the original bottom gear and as you say 'in extremis' in borderline cases it could make the difference, and always handy as a 'get me home' gear for hills if you're caught short of charge.

Stuart.

 

[flecc]

But when the hill gets too steep, then both motor and rider come off the pace at the same time and it really does all fall apart very suddenly. I find myself standing on the pedals and struggling to maintain 9 mph.

Nick

That's a what used to happen to me when facing a 20% Nick, both the bike and me cutting out together.

I use the 13 to 34 freewheel since I swapped the motor to the rear wheel so cassettes are out, and my 52 tooth chainwheel is unchanged. I can just manage a 20% with the standard battery now, and my 14% up to home is much more comfortable on the 34 tooth low which is a 42" gear, down from the 58" standard low gear.

If you use that 11 to 34 cassette I mentioned with the standard chainring, you'd have that 42" low through to a high of 132", the same top gear as the prototype Torq that A to B tested originally, and up from your present 122". That would give you a very fast downhill gear for pedalling at high speed.
.

 

[JamesC]

Thanks guys,

So clearly I'm not the first person to want to do this - thanks for passing on your experiences.

Nick

I was given lots of guidance on the Torq gearing last year - Pages 49 and 50 of the Just registered thread.

This also led on to the "throttle mod" - shortening back the throttle and adding a static grip for the left hand, so that a much more accurate throttle setting could be held whilst climbing.

How is your project with the Torq coming along ? Your "Storms up hills" thread pushed me into adding the second battery on my Torq, with great success. Sharing the load between the 2 batteries has made it much more possible for the motor to hold on at speeds below 10/11 mph when the climb steepens.

For info
Sora 8 speed - max rear sprocket 27T
Alivio 8 speed - max rear sprocket 34T

James

 

[Tiberius]

Hi James,

The Torq "project" isn't really a project - its the bike in use while the other projects move along slowly. I'm back looking at the Torq again for the Tour of Britain ride in September.

The throttle mod you mentioned sounds exactly what I've got on the new project. When the throttle was delivered I was puzzled as to why it was half length, but now I see the purpose. I've also got a thumb throttle to try.

What's the difference between HG30, HG50, etc cassettes?
How easy is it to mix and match gears from different cassettes? Can a 9 speed be made into an 8 speed?
Can SRAM cassettes be used with Shimano shifters?

I think I'm going to try for the full 34 tooth rear first gear and then see if I need to change the chainwheel.

Nick

 

[flecc]

What's the difference between HG30, HG50, etc cassettes?
How easy is it to mix and match gears from different cassettes? Can a 9 speed be made into an 8 speed?
Can SRAM cassettes be used with Shimano shifters?

I think I'm going to try for the full 34 tooth rear first gear and then see if I need to change the chainwheel.

Nick

The HG30 has 32 tooth to 11 tooth.

The HG60 has 34 tooth to 11 tooth.

The HG50 is a 7 speed multi-sprocket freewheel, not a cassette, 34 tooth to 11 tooth Megarange.

Not certain about the cassette question. SRAM mark many of their changers as Shimano compatible, but Shimano don't return the compliment.

I think you'll find the HG60 34 to 11 on the standard 52 tooth chainring a good choice on the Torq 1 with a very wide range, 42" to 132".
.

 

[Tiberius]

Thanks flecc,

What would we do without you?

Next question: What is reckoned to be the best cadence for power delivery - or does that vary widely between individuals.

Nick

 

[Beeping-Sleauty]

The HG30 has 32 tooth to 11 tooth.

The HG60 has 34 tooth to 11 tooth.

The HG50 is a 7 speed multi-sprocket freewheel, not a cassette, 34 tooth to 11 tooth Megarange.

Not certain about the cassette question. SRAM mark many of their changers as Shimano compatible, but Shimano don't return the compliment.

I think you'll find the HG60 34 to 11 on the standard 52 tooth chainring a good choice on the Torq 1 with a very wide range, 42" to 132".
.

i have the HG50 Megarange, with the 52 tooth chainring, love the range, rarely use the 34, if you like smooth slow pedalling you'll like the 11 tooth on the flat.

 

[Tiberius]

i have the HG50 Megarange, with the 52 tooth chainring, love the range, rarely use the 34, if you like smooth slow pedalling you'll like the 11 tooth on the flat.

Hi Beeps,

That sounds like the way to go. What derailleur are you using with that? And did you have to do anything to the chain?

Nick

 

[Beeping-Sleauty]

Hi Beeps,

That sounds like the way to go. What derailleur are you using with that? And did you have to do anything to the chain?

Nick

Hi Nick,

i stayed with Shimano and use the Tourney MegaRange, SIS index, needed to add 3 links to the chain, now have 71, put a Supa-Link in while i was at it, good-bye to my trusty chainlink tool. This Tourney derailleur is solid & precise and has no trouble hopping up to the 34t 'Granny ring', i'm very happy with it, i have some pix if you want to see it.

beeps

 

[Tiberius]

Beeps,

Pics would be nice, thanks. So is there no master link in the chain to start with?

Next daft question: is the Shimano cassette removal tool the same as the freewheel removal tool? I've already got one of those, so do I only need a chain whip.

Nick

 

[flecc]

No, the cassette removal tool is slightly different, annoyingly.

Best cadence is generally reckoned to be about 90 for sports riders in the UK. That's very much faster than most utility cyclists use, but gives high efficiency with minimal risk of knee damage. Any cyclist not in full training fitness will generally be happier somewhere between 70 and 80 cadence.

Beeps HG50 is the freewheel Megarange version of course, with a big step from second down to first (24 tooth to 34 tooth jump). I use the similar Megarange 6 speed freewheel on my rear-motor bikes, that's 13 to 34 tooth, the same but without the 11 tooth 7th gear.

The HG60 cassette has a smooth progression from the 11 tooth through to the 34 tooth with no big jumps to upset rhythm.
.

 

[flecc]

P.S. to the above. My cassette tool doesn't quite fit the freewheels, but the freewheel one may fit the cassette as it's fractionally smaller so could do your job. Worth a try to see before buying.
.

 

[Tiberius]

P.S. to the above. My cassette tool doesn't quite fit the freewheels, but the freewheel one may fit the cassette as it's fractionally smaller so could do your job. Worth a try to see before buying.
.

It fits, but its loose, hence my question. Would probably work if the forces weren't too great.

What's the current technology with chains? I seem to remember from my youth that you could only adjust them by even numbers of links and you had to have special links to re-join them.

Nick

 

[flecc]

It's an even number of 1/2" sections, but each pair makes one complete link which can be removed singly. There are half links with stepped sideplates and they come in 3/32" derailleur chain size as well, but they really aren't necessary, a half link variation on the length of a chain not worth worrying about

Derailleur chains can be joined by compressing the pins back in with the chaintool, that having a second position which can be used to ease any subsequent tightness.

Much easier is the SRAM Powerlink, a clever two pieced design for joining 3/32" chain.

Chaintool gen on this site, which also shows the SRAM Powerlink, called the "magic" link there.
.

 

[Tiberius]

Chaintool gen on this site, which also shows the SRAM Powerlink, called the "magic" link there.
.

Thanks for that link, flecc,

I've got a multi purpose device with a chain tool built in. Now I know how to use it. Not sure, though, whether its a proper precision tool or a christmas cracker type. I've also got a 100 year old one in my tool collection but it looks like its for bigger chain

I think I used to use things like the magic link, but with the two rivets fixed to one plate and a double circlip to retain things at the other side.

Nick

Sorry about the smilies - my daughter is helping me type.