Electric Mountain Bikes: No one will buy one?!..

[EddiePJ]

I would of thought that would depend on how many are going back to him faulty.

Assuming that he has had any at all, I can't imagine that it would be many. Being seemingly the dearest Haibike dealer out there, I'm sure that he could swallow the cost of a few motors.

If he isn't swallowing the cost and is sending the motors that he has supplied and fitted with a dongle back to Bosch under warranty, then he is making fraudulent warranty claims, and could be in big trouble if found out. I'm sure that Martin couldn't afford the same legal team that Bosch could.

 

[soundwave]

ed so if you wanted to dongle ur bike and get warranty from bosch how would you go about it as martin will not answer this question either or how many motors come back dongle knackered damage.

now as this is software can bosch tell if 1 is used well the must have as stated on there site any mod dongles speed tuning voids the warranty end off.

also most dealers will void warranty on hole bike if 1 is used.

so is martin wiping the bikes memory ie removing the batts in display and reinstalling the software as thats the only way to reset the bikes mem as far i know.

bosch must know what he is up to as just take 1 look at his site.

also why does he not stock motors if he is paying for them out of own pocket does not make sense at all.

 

[tillson]

I'm afraid I've seen nothing posted by Jresa that convinces me that his experiences with Martin / Bosch / Warranty issues ever happened. He's popped up on here today and immediately launched into an attack on Martin. He has provided no detail whatsoever about the nature of the fault with his bike, what attempts he has made to resolve the issues with Martin and what the outcome has been. These are fundermental points which any genuine person with a grievance would be able to supply. Jresa has provided nothing despite several requests from me and others.

I think this person is a fake and anybody with concerns over warranty issues with a bike purchased from Martin should judge the situation on their own experiences. This fake is just trying to whip up ill feeling.

Having said that, I think that there is a need for Martin to respond to some of the concerns raised by his customers within this thread. He has chosen to use Pedelecs as a medium to communicate with his customer base and it's not really good form to dip in and out cherry picking the nice bits to respond to.

 

[Gubbins]

ed so if you wanted to dongle ur bike and get warranty from bosch how would you go about it as martin will not answer this question either or how many motors come back dongle knackered damage.

now as this is software can bosch tell if 1 is used well the must have as stated on there site any mod dongles speed tuning voids the warranty end off.

also most dealers will void warranty on hole bike if 1 is used.

so is martin wiping the bikes memory ie removing the batts in display and reinstalling the software as thats the only way to reset the bikes mem as far i know.

bosch must know what he is up to as just take 1 look at his site.

also why does he not stock motors if he is paying for them out of own pocket does not make sense at all.

We seem to be slipping back to this.
You fiddle about with and make alterations you risk your warranty!!
Its a really simple rule of thumb.. Dont open it up untill the warranty runs out....

 

[Gubbins]

I'm afraid I've seen nothing posted by Jresa that convinces me that his experiences with Martin / Bosch / Warranty issues ever happened. He's popped up on here today and immediately launched into an attack on Martin. He has provided no detail whatsoever about the nature of the fault with his bike, what attempts he has made to resolve the issues with Martin and what the outcome has been. These are fundermental points which any genuine person with a grievance would be able to supply. Jresa has provided nothing despite several requests from me and others.

I think this person is a fake and anybody with concerns over warranty issues with a bike purchased from Martin should judge the situation on their own experiences. This fake is just trying to whip up ill feeling.

And an earlier reference to "col" also speaks volumes..

 

[soundwave]

We seem to be slipping back to this.
You fiddle about with and make alterations you risk your warranty!!
Its a really simple rule of thumb.. Dont open it up untill the warranty runs out.

yes but martin is doing it to brad new bikes and offering warranty with it when its clear what it says on the bosch web site. dongle warranty void.

 

[oldtom]

I understand that dealers need to take the rough with the smooth when they choose to enter an end-user forum but I find there has been something of a trend recently of dissatisfied buyers using these pages to air their grievances publicly, in some cases before exhausting other avenues with a view to redress.

It's rather distasteful in my book and we're not talking about multi-national companies here. This UK EAPC market remains a cottage industry, sometimes little more than a one-man band, or perhaps in some cases, one man and his missus.

While these traders who give some input to these pages are seeking to make a living, they are not trying to rip-off those who give them custom, particularly if the dissatisfaction might be from a Pedelecs member. Recently, it was the turn of 50Cycles to receive some bad press here, in spite of the fact that many of us have enjoyed first-class service from that company before and after the point of sale and there have been other traders rather unfairly, in my view, on the receiving end of customer condemnation.

Although I'm unlikely to buy any of Martin's offerings should I wish to update my EAPC in the future, I do hope he finds the time to provide a response to this flak he has received from some on here.

Tom

 

[EddiePJ]

ed so if you wanted to dongle ur bike and get warranty from bosch how would you go about it.
.

I wouldn't want to fit a dongle.

The Bosch terms and conditions are clear enough in stating that the motor is no longer covered.

Martin is being misleading with this though. https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/downloads/bosch/bosch-tuning-dongle-fitting-guide.pdf

He states "the tuning dongle is strictly for off road use only" This is incorrect. It should say Off road use on private land, with no public access or rights of way.

He states "could invalidate your motors warranty" This is also incorrect. It will invalidate your motors warranty

 

[soundwave]

i know that the question is how martin is getting away with it when no one else can?

i mean if he put on his site a dongle voids all bike warranty think he even sell 1 of them?

 

[Gubbins]

We seem to be slipping back to this.
You fiddle about with and make alterations you risk your warranty!!
Its a really simple rule of thumb.. Dont open it up untill the warranty runs out.

yes but martin is doing it to brad new bikes and offering warranty with it when its clear what it says on the bosch web site. dongle warranty void.

Well, you need to take him at his word and stop worrying about what might happen. Your glass should be half full, and with regard to the new poster.. Lets wait until we know all the facts.. There are 2 sides to every tale..

 

[dinger19]

His absence on here like others have said speaks volumes,but to take his word for it when your investing over 2k on a product that should be legal and trouble free for years with no warranty is a no no.

 

[martinb]

Seems to me a major storm in a tea cup.
I have a dongled haibike and has been so from almost new ( bad ass)

Don't think for one moment that this is Ferrari performance, just makes cycling at, say 18mph possible.
The motor power over about 18mph is not sufficient to give you that major assist over these sorts of speeds.

Any cycle.. ebike or otherwise, can... downhill do over 30mph and possibly if steep enough and the wind behind approaching 40 mph.

I cannot see why Manufacturers that offer unrestricted ebikes then state "modified ebikes" are eliminated from any warranties.

I don't particularly have a lot of Time for Martin@ebikes but feel sure he's meaning you really can't get up to that much with a dongled ebike to damage a motor.

Folks need to know dongled or not ie unrestricted or otherwise, ebikes are FANTASTIC bikes. It mostly means that instead of doing 10 miles off road on an solely pedal cycle, with an ebike you get to do 30 miles before your knackered.
That distance opens up so more options in respect of both distance and hills that would not otherwise be tackled.
Leicestershire Rocks...........get a decent OS Map and don't concern yourself with the minutiae or petty arguments here........Dingly Donglies do help.

 

[Gubbins]

From Martin's web page.. Seems pretty clear to me!
What warranty do you offer on your bikes?
All of our electric bikes come with the best warranty possible. We offer 5 years on the frame, 1 year on all of the components & 2 years on the whole electrical system. All of our warranty work is carried out in house. This means we resolve this for you as opposed to passing you on to a third party. We offer the quickest turnaround in the country, our aim is to offer a complete happy eBiking experience, so it's in our interest to get any minor issues resolved quickly for you. As long as you are the original owner, we will of course happily support you outside of any warranty period. We are just an email or call away. Warranty doesn't cover bulbs, brake pads / blocks, tyres, tubes, chains, sprockets, hangers, cables and other items generally regarded as consumables.

 

[soundwave]

https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/Electric-Bikes-UK-Dealer/Moustache-Dimanche-Speed-2015?filter=23

so you think this go any faster with his dongle, nope

 

[anotherkiwi]

Some French (Google translate is your friend) which is about kits on "mopeds" (scooters these days), the same law will apply to dongles on pedelecs hypothetically because the pedelec becomes a moped once the dongle is on...

The risks for scooters which are often capable of up to and over 80kph with brakes and tyres designed for just over half that speed:

"Le débridage et le kitage aggravent considérablement la fréquence et les conséquences des accidents des jeunes cyclomotoristes. Une étude du BCA expertise pour la Fédération française des sociétés d’assurances, réalisée en 2007 sur un ensemble de 2018 cyclomoteurs accidentés, a montré que le débridage augmente le risque de blessure de 30 %. L'enquête montre par ailleurs que 50 % des cyclomoteurs accidentés sont débridés et que 65% ne sont pas conformes sur au moins un des points contrôlés (débridage et/ou éléments de sécurité)."

If a bike shop installs the kit:

"Le débridage comme le kitage constituent aujourd’hui un délit, passible, pour les professionnels, de deux ans d'emprisonnement, de 30 000 euros d'amende, et d’une interdiction d’exercice de 5 ans."

If you resell without taking the kit off:

Si vous ou votre enfant revendez un cyclomoteur qui a été débridé (ou kité), vous encourez jusqu’à 6 mois de prison et 7 500 euros d’amende.

And the fine if you are caught riding one:

Si votre enfant est contrôlé au guidon d’un engin trafiqué, il risque non seulement une amende de 135 €, mais aussi l’immobilisation, voire la confiscation de son véhicule par les forces de l’ordre.

And the insurance company will not have to pay out in case of accident.

 

[Gubbins]

Some French (Google translate is your friend) which is about kits on "mopeds" (scooters these days), the same law will apply to dongles on pedelecs hypothetically because the pedelec becomes a moped once the dongle is on...

The risks for scooters which are often capable of up to and over 80kph with brakes and tyres designed for just over half that speed:

"Le débridage et le kitage aggravent considérablement la fréquence et les conséquences des accidents des jeunes cyclomotoristes. Une étude du BCA expertise pour la Fédération française des sociétés d’assurances, réalisée en 2007 sur un ensemble de 2018 cyclomoteurs accidentés, a montré que le débridage augmente le risque de blessure de 30 %. L'enquête montre par ailleurs que 50 % des cyclomoteurs accidentés sont débridés et que 65% ne sont pas conformes sur au moins un des points contrôlés (débridage et/ou éléments de sécurité)."

If a bike shop installs the kit:

"Le débridage comme le kitage constituent aujourd’hui un délit, passible, pour les professionnels, de deux ans d'emprisonnement, de 30 000 euros d'amende, et d’une interdiction d’exercice de 5 ans."

If you resell without taking the kit off:

Si vous ou votre enfant revendez un cyclomoteur qui a été débridé (ou kité), vous encourez jusqu’à 6 mois de prison et 7 500 euros d’amende.

And the fine if you are caught riding one:

Si votre enfant est contrôlé au guidon d’un engin trafiqué, il risque non seulement une amende de 135 €, mais aussi l’immobilisation, voire la confiscation de son véhicule par les forces de l’ordre.

And the insurance company will not have to pay out in case of accident.

Will that also apply in Doncaster? [emoji15]

 

[anotherkiwi]

Nope just a peek at what you risk if you ride your dongled e-MTB over here when on holiday.

 

[soundwave]

From Martin's web page.. Seems pretty clear to me!
What warranty do you offer on your bikes?
All of our electric bikes come with the best warranty possible. We offer 5 years on the frame, 1 year on all of the components & 2 years on the whole electrical system. All of our warranty work is carried out in house. This means we resolve this for you as opposed to passing you on to a third party. We offer the quickest turnaround in the country, our aim is to offer a complete happy eBiking experience, so it's in our interest to get any minor issues resolved quickly for you. As long as you are the original owner, we will of course happily support you outside of any warranty period. We are just an email or call away. Warranty doesn't cover bulbs, brake pads / blocks, tyres, tubes, chains, sprockets, hangers, cables and other items generally regarded as consumables.

the warranty is also void if you sell the bike to a 3rd party even if it has 10 miles on it.

 

[Gubbins]

From Martin's web page.. Seems pretty clear to me!
What warranty do you offer on your bikes?
All of our electric bikes come with the best warranty possible. We offer 5 years on the frame, 1 year on all of the components & 2 years on the whole electrical system. All of our warranty work is carried out in house. This means we resolve this for you as opposed to passing you on to a third party. We offer the quickest turnaround in the country, our aim is to offer a complete happy eBiking experience, so it's in our interest to get any minor issues resolved quickly for you. As long as you are the original owner, we will of course happily support you outside of any warranty period. We are just an email or call away. Warranty doesn't cover bulbs, brake pads / blocks, tyres, tubes, chains, sprockets, hangers, cables and other items generally regarded as consumables.

the warranty is also void if you sell the bike to a 3rd party even if it has 10 miles on it.

Yes but if you have sold it then any concern over the warranty would be sold with the bike.
There seem to be a lot of "What if's" rolling around..
I remember not too long ago a member had a BB failure which prompted similar hysteria regarding bosch warranties..

 

[soundwave]

well my bike was from ebike shop and i got it from ebay with 150 miles on it and so far have broken my rear hub and have managed to get a warranty replacement my self as it saves time and get the part direct so faster all round.

now my bike was 5500 from ebike shop and did he help me in any way nope as got cash for it and now i am on my own which fair enough as got it second hand but forget martin even posting any help to fix it for me or any one else with 3rd party bikes.

crank brothers even offered to replace the hole wheel and hub b4 me and 2 ppl at a bike shop took a hour to get it off the axle and put a new 1 on it.

why cos i went on fb and went ape **** that it failed