Electric Bikes - Brands and Prcing

[EdBike]

I noted this, if I had any spare cash (ha!) I'd be buying shares in Apple now, they will go up. Even with the dip they are up 70% year on year. Over recent years they have grown by more than 300%. I see more and more and more ipads, iphones and macs on trains, in airports, offices etc than ever before as they are desirable even though more than twice the standard equivalent in cost.

That only reminds me of this cartoon ... http://business-fundas.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/stock-market-cartoon.png

 

[Ultra Motor]

I only mentioned the AtoB because your last outburst made no sense otherwise, you obviously like to make assumptions about people.

Get of the soap box Mark, most of us are enthusiast and savvy buyers and not easily convinced by marketing BS? We also recognise TRUE innovation when it comes along.......

I am not "in Lurve" with my e bike you silly man, it replaced a second car and is a utilitarian means of transport and for pleasure as well

Some TRULY interesting bikes this year I think, and I am in the market for something interesting. Exciting days ahead I think for genuine and innovative European bikes which should marginalise the re badgers and copyist's among you

Hi Eddie,

No assumptions, just interpretations, if I'm wrong then I'm happy to hold my hands up- but this was what I read from your posts and I wasn't alone.

I'm glad its replaced your second car, this is what its all about!

And of course I'm not in the market of re-badging or copying

Good luck with the search!

 

[Ultra Motor]

simple, belts are not as efficient as chains and with the limited power available from rider you need the most efficient transfer of power available. Also, with a belt you are limited to the gear range available form hub gears and single front chain ring.

I have noticed some fixed gear bikes with Carbon belts which are really nice. But as pointed out they are with a Nexus hub or similar which leaves you with the only option of front wheel drive or crank. Personally I'm not a fan, but I know some prefer.

When I can afford it I aspire to a BMW F800S which has a belt drive and I'm really keen on the lack of maintenance and how quiet it is....

 

[Caph]

At the end of the day, as Flecc has said many times over, the branded ebike companies cannot make money out of selling ebikes with a reasonable overhead, there just isn't the volume sales in the market. You never see an ebike seller driving a Jag or so the saying goes.

So at the end of the day you will unfortunately find all ebike sellers selling low quality bikes at whever price they can get away with, or a decent quality bike at a crazily high price.

If you want a high quality ebike at a decent price then you have absolutely no option other than to buy a high quality bike and add a motor/controller/battery. That said, you'll probably find you'll save about £1000 in doing so.

That's not to say that I'm denegrating existing ebike sellers. They're doing a great job in promoting ebikes. It's hardly their fault that they have to charge more to make enough money to pay for their business and their wages. I think a lot of people will indeed pay heavily for a complete ready to go solution with after sales support, so good luck to them, as long as people know they are paying heavily for this service.

 

[EdBike]

At the end of the day, as Flecc has said many times over, the branded ebike companies cannot make money out of selling ebikes with a reasonable overhead, there just isn't the volume sales in the market. You never see an ebike seller driving a Jag or so the saying goes.

So at the end of the day you will unfortunately find all ebike sellers selling low quality bikes at whever price they can get away with, or a decent quality bike at a crazily high price.

If you want a high quality ebike at a decent price then you have absolutely no option other than to buy a high quality bike and add a motor/controller/battery. That said, you'll probably find you'll save about £1000 in doing so.

That's not to say that I'm denegrating existing ebike sellers. They're doing a great job in promoting ebikes. It's hardly their fault that they have to charge more to make enough money to pay for their business and their wages. I think a lot of people will indeed pay heavily for a complete ready to go solution with after sales support, so good luck to them, as long as people know they are paying heavily for this service.

So basically you say there are two options;

1) Learn marketing
2) Or sell junk.

Hmmm...

 

[Ultra Motor]

That only reminds me of this cartoon ... http://business-fundas.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/stock-market-cartoon.png

Brilliant!!

 

[flecc]

So basically you say there are two options;

1) Learn marketing
2) Or sell junk.

Hmmm...

Not really. Caph is saying, as I do, that to be viable long term in a tiny market like e-bikes, the higher price high margin is the only way to survive. Even those companies can really struggle to finance themselves through winters and recessions. Those e-bike sellers and even manufacturers who have kidded themselves that they can survive on apparently more reasonable margins have disappeared in droves over the last two decades, while the likes of 50cycles, Wisper, BikeTec and Derby Cycles have come through unscathed and flourished.

If they have the customers who are satisfied, and they self evidently are, where's the harm? Through much of my life I couldn't afford a Rolex and still couldn't afford a Bugatti, but I don't sulk about that inability to own very high margin products. Those who cannot afford the higher priced e-bikes shouldn't sulk either. That's life.
.

 

[indalo]

Good point and well made in that last paragraph flecc.

I'm fortunate in that I don't necessarily have to restrict my choice in things to the budget end of the market but I have to confess to getting a little bit of a thrill from picking up a loaf for 25p from Tesco's reduced section late in the day. Equally, (and I must be getting old!) I can't seem to walk past a charity shop these days. I've had a "right result" on several occasions and it's difficult to avoid a certain smugness when getting a bargain.

Indalo

 

[flecc]

Marvelous Indalo, I recognise myself too in everything you just said!
.

 

[Ultra Motor]

Good point and well made in that last paragraph flecc.

I'm fortunate in that I don't necessarily have to restrict my choice in things to the budget end of the market but I have to confess to getting a little bit of a thrill from picking up a loaf for 25p from Tesco's reduced section late in the day. Equally, (and I must be getting old!) I can't seem to walk past a charity shop these days. I've had a "right result" on several occasions and it's difficult to avoid a certain smugness when getting a bargain.

Indalo

Ha! You can't beat going in just before a bank holiday and picking up the bargains!!! Even in my youth I find my self going into the odd charity shop!!

 

[brucehawsker]

I would be happy to discuss margins on bikes - it has been suggested that it rapacious to charge more for the same bike in the UK compared to a bike sold in Southern Europe. While I am not doing that - please see of my recent posts - were I doing so, and felt I needed to make the same true profit as a bike shop in say Milan or Rome, I would need to charge £200 more for the bike to cover wages, overheads etc. Anyone can access the comparative retail costs in various European cities.

It has cost us to date around £100,000 to set up a sustainable business co-developing, importing, setting up a 1,000 sq ft dedicated flagship shop in a principal City Centre, developing marketing material and web site and other marketing programmes. We have investing time and money in a nationwide support network to cover servicing. Our salary bill for non principals is over £7,500 a month. This is not a quick "import a container load of bikes from China and flog over the internet from a low rental industrial estate unit".

A quality electric bike which a user can be fully confident can endure typical usage for three years in all weathers without major costs and be comfortable and stylish and which comes from a manufacturer who is here for the long term inevitably will cost today the wrong side of £1250 inc VAT (possibly even £1500 inc VAT). I could suggest a number of such bikes and the majority fall into the range £1500-£2200. None of them involve "ripping off" the client.

 

[eddieo]

Bruce, When are you going to stop saturating this site with your promotional drivel? Your pictures on your site are lifted directly from the Spanish ECO bike website? it IS an identical bike - same pictures, means same bike to me! what do you expect us to think

No one is buying your I phone BS either not even the gadget freaks, as when struggling up local hills its battery Ah, gears and a strong motor that makes all the difference, not whether I can plug a laptop into my bike. Any basic sat nav has tracking for pity's sake. Give it a rest and get the bike out there for some real feedback, and maybe stop using the forum above and beyond what can be considered a reasonable introduction...IMO you are starting to sound desperate

 

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