Electric Bikes - Brands and Prcing

[CeeGee]

And your bikes are so completely different from all those similar looking copies from china at £500 pounds less, with the same frame, same motor the same 6 speed gears and even the same bell.

Which cheaper bike uses the same frame as a Wisper?

Colin

 

[Ultra Motor]

Of course not? But I am not trying to hoodwink people am I.....at least mine has a 7 speed and a far more useful 14 Ah battery then an I phone connection (I have a Blackberry)

If you are suckered in by these grandiose claims and BS fair enough.......But the £500 cheaper ECO bike would be far more welcome I would think

I will try and remember "Amps are not everything" when out riding today!

Eddie,

Just read this, you must be a very angry man inside! I know we've had our exchanges of opinion and obviously yours is always right (?).

I think it is time to just accept there are other bikes aside from your trusty Wisper (and I don't doubt its serving you well). Bruce has invested a considerable amount of money, time and made long term commitments to the e-bike market. He has some 'cool tech' which I'm sure other manufacturers will start using in time (maybe even Wisper to!) and we have to embrace this.

There is a very clear difference between the Big cat bike and Eco bike which has been clearly identified. Everyone has brand preferences, I prefer Mac to PC, but I also accept that my girlfriend prefers a PC. She prefers because it is cheaper and she is used to the way it works. I prefer a Mac for the way it works, its design and extra features and I pay more for that privilege. We need more 'Mac' e-bike firms, Apple's profits have increased by more than 70% in a year, I'm pretty sure Microsofts didn't. With increased profits it benefits the economy, brings more jobs and stimulates further development.

The point to my thread is around the saying: "if you don't have anything constructive to say, say nothing". Its OK to question and I fully support that, but not to bulldoze and continue bulldozing, this doesn't help any new people coming to the market and nor does it help the industry. By riding an e-bike I make the assumption you are here to support the industry? I hope you can continue to post with that in mind?

thanks and lots of love.

Mark

 

[flecc]

Regarding the accusations of cloning etc, I can't help but feel there's an anti-Chinese bike element present.

I've yet to see any of these accusations against any of the bikes using the Japanese Panasonic crank drive unit, yet there's over 20 brands of those with many models almost identical in specification from different manufacturers. There's also as many as 4 differently badged versions of the same thing from the same factory in one case. The "me-too" copying present in many cases is quite blatant yet never mentioned. Odd that.
.

 

[Mussels]

Regarding the accusations of cloning etc, I can't help but feel there's an anti-Chinese bike element present.

I've yet to see any of these accusations against any of the bikes using the Japanese Panasonic crank drive unit, yet there's over 20 brands of those with many models almost identical in specification from different manufacturers. There's also as many as 4 differently badged versions of the same thing from the same factory in one case. The "me-too" copying present in many cases is quite blatant yet never mentioned. Odd that.
.

It may be because the Derby Cycles retailers haven't argued when people have mentioned that many models are the same with different badges.

 

[AndyOfTheSouth]

That most enticing, frightfully beguiling figure of £1700 plus or minus £200

The Bruce and Eddieo Show is enlivening this site. For anyone who hasn't seen it, it features straight man Bruce being tormented by court jester Eddieo.

Wisper owning, long distance motor homer Eddie believes that Bruce's new bikes are being sold in Spain for the price of a plate of paella and a jug of sangria. Bruce says that his are different because they contain more electronics than Bill Gates's cocktail cabinet and he only uses the same pictures because the memory card on his compact is full.

Whatever anyone thinks about this, there do seem to be a number of new ebikes coming on the market for this sort of figure. Is this actually where the mainstream market lies, or is it just wishful thinking?

There will always be a market for cheap, workable models like the Cyclamatic and for exotic, expensive ones like a Storck Raddar - great name by the way, distinctive and authentic - but is the real territory £1500 upwards or is it £500 - £999?

The overall impression seems to be of a crop of companies looking for features to justify the higher price point rather than ways to meet the lower one.

 

[flecc]

It may be because the Derby Cycles retailers haven't argued when people have mentioned that many models are the same with different badges.

Yes, but the majority are from different manufacturers in several countries who aren't mentioned as copying. Derby, BH, Gazelle, Puch, Helkama, Monark, Gitane and BikeTec from eight different countries* are all producing step-through Panasonic powered Nexus 3 speed geared bikes that are almost clones of each other, all without any criticism of the "me-too" copying element. Four of those are readily available here in the UK too.

* Germany, Spain, Holland, Austria, Finland, Sweden, France, Switzerland.
.

 

[eddieo]

The Bruce and Eddieo Show is enlivening this site. For anyone who hasn't seen it, it features straight man Bruce being tormented by court jester Eddieo.

Wisper owning, long distance motor homer Eddie believes that Bruce's new bikes are being sold in Spain for the price of a plate of paella and a jug of sangria. Bruce says that his are different because they contain more electronics than Bill Gates's cocktail cabinet and he only uses the same pictures because the memory card on his compact is full.

Whatever anyone thinks about this, there do seem to be a number of new ebikes coming on the market for this sort of figure. Is this actually where the mainstream market lies, or is it just wishful thinking?

There will always be a market for cheap, workable models like the Cyclamatic and for exotic, expensive ones like a Storck Raddar - great name by the way, distinctive and authentic - but is the real territory £1500 upwards or is it £500 - £999?

The overall impression seems to be of a crop of companies looking for features to justify the higher price point rather than ways to meet the lower one.

Spot on, and a sense of humour to boot! thanks for that, much appreciated Andy

I am far from angry thanks Mark...Because I dont like the look of your AtoB moped, that gives you the right to try and marginalise me? Not likely fruit..... My interests are aligned with the ordinary members of this forum? without a vested interest, trying to sway and manage opinion with BS?

Bruce is now a manafacturer lol....look forward to the factory tour, what will be the next slight of hand I wonder!:

 

[EdBike]

Hi Edbike, sorry not to see you at Westminster today. Please do not worry, you were sorely missed. In your absence you have been assigned many 'interesting' jobs .

Yeah, it didn't work out in the end. 1 days notice to get permission from schoolfolks to leave school (unlikely), travel up to london for a meeting (why?) in order to talk a selection of industry folks through a marketing plan that could change the world ("what, so you're not studying for your A Levels. No!")

Next time, with notice, I will be there.

@Eddieo - you need a radio show

 

[EdBike]

We need more 'Mac' e-bike firms, Apple's profits have increased by more than 70% in a year, I'm pretty sure Microsofts didn't.

Yeah! But one thing Apple have really mastered is the marketing (or b.s. as per Eddieo). That's where their success has come...

So we really just need e-bike firms who understand marketing (with really shiny new bikes).

 

[Mussels]

The overall impression seems to be of a crop of companies looking for features to justify the higher price point rather than ways to meet the lower one.

There is probably some of that but not all. When I had a Wisper 905 there were a few mods that I wanted to make to it, these mods would have taken quite a bit of effort and money to make the bike just as I want it. The Wisper 906 Alfine is a few hundred quid more but encorporates all the extras I wanted to make a long commute better for me, it may look like a bigger version of the same bike with hub gears but the details are significant and do make a better overall experience. There are still things I'd like to change but not enough to bother doing it.

The price people pay will probably reflect the amount of use that is expected and how essential it is to keep it on the road, a broken bike costs me £50 a week in train fares so a cheaper but poorly supported bike is probably a false economy.

 

[NRG]

The future for Apple may not be so rosey as it once was:

Steve Jobs Temporarily stepping down From Apple | Internet news and views

Even though they posted a record quarter the share price was hit and there is now some uncertainty in the market. [/off topic]

 

[jbond]

So we really just need e-bike firms who understand marketing (with really shiny new bikes).

That'll be Sinclair, then. Oh. Wait.

 

[Ultra Motor]

Spot on, and a sense of humour to boot! thanks for that, much appreciated Andy

I am far from angry thanks Mark...Because I dont like the look of your AtoB moped, that gives you the right to try and marginalise me? Not likely fruit..... My interests are aligned with the ordinary members of this forum? without a vested interest, trying to sway and manage opinion with BS?

Bruce is now a manafacturer lol....look forward to the factory tour, what will be the next slight of hand I wonder!:

Hi Eddie

Everyone has their own opinions and my point is that everyone likes something different. I fully accept you don't like the A2B, its not for everyone and I accept that and it fine!

My concern is about damning people who enter the market with new, exciting and innovative products that will appeal to people. We have to support everyone industry wide who is in it for the right reasons to grow the industry. Its great that you love you Wisper and you can champion the brand, but it doesn't mean that no other brand has a suitable offering for others entering the market. This is the beauty of any marketplace, great choice to suit consumers that have different needs and budgets.

I hope that makes sense

Thanks
Mark

 

[Ultra Motor]

The future for Apple may not be so rosey as it once was:

Steve Jobs Temporarily stepping down From Apple | Internet news and views

Even though they posted a record quarter the share price was hit and there is now some uncertainty in the market. [/off topic]

Hi NRG,

Off topic is fine

I noted this, if I had any spare cash (ha!) I'd be buying shares in Apple now, they will go up. Even with the dip they are up 70% year on year. Over recent years they have grown by more than 300%. I see more and more and more ipads, iphones and macs on trains, in airports, offices etc than ever before as they are desirable even though more than twice the standard equivalent in cost.

My belief is that whilst the majority of the elder market are more price sensitive and look to spend up to £999 the younger market looks for more technology and is willing to pay for it. This is what we found from our 1000 size research 18 months ago

Thanks
Mark

 

[LeonardYoung]

My concern is about damning people who enter the market with new, exciting and innovative products that will appeal to people. We have to support everyone industry wide who is in it for the right reasons to grow the industry. Its great that you love you Wisper and you can champion the brand, but it doesn't mean that no other brand has a suitable offering for others entering the market. This is the beauty of any marketplace, great choice to suit consumers that have different needs and budgets.

I hope that makes sense

Thanks
Mark

I think that is a very intelligent observation. There are some fascinating modes of personal transport which are enlightened and refreshing. Unfortunately many of them are banned by legislation even before they are launched because road laws are always so tediously behind adaptation to new technology.

What intrigues me about the bicycle is that it remains a highly efficient mode of transport despite the new tech stuff like the Yike Bike and parallegram chassis three wheeled innovations, and the traditional bike is still very hard to beat for practicality.

It seems that the biggest challenge remains as it has for years: How to provide enough electrical energy that can be stored without cumbersome weight, expense of hardware, or how to capture and store kinetic energy cheaply and efficiently for practical purposes.

Leonard

 

[eddieo]

Hi Eddie



My concern is about damning people who enter the market with new, exciting and innovative products that will appeal to people. We have to support everyone industry wide who is in it for the right reasons to grow the industry. Its great that you love you Wisper and you can champion the brand, but it doesn't mean that no other brand has a suitable offering for others entering the market. This is the beauty of any marketplace, great choice to suit consumers that have different needs and budgets.

I hope that makes sense

Thanks
Mark

I only mentioned the AtoB because your last outburst made no sense otherwise, you obviously like to make assumptions about people.

Get of the soap box Mark, most of us are enthusiast and savvy buyers and not easily convinced by marketing BS? We also recognise TRUE innovation when it comes along.......

I am not "in Lurve" with my e bike you silly man, it replaced a second car and is a utilitarian means of transport and for pleasure as well

Some TRULY interesting bikes this year I think, and I am in the market for something interesting. Exciting days ahead I think for genuine and innovative European bikes which should marginalise the re badgers and copyist's among you

 

[neilmeansneil]

As usual enjoying the banter but as far as real innovation is concerned there seams to be little on offer. All new 'manufacturers' reuse existing technology and apply marketing spin to justify their prices.
I've had my Alien GS11 for nearly a year, had a 4 month break due to total knee replacement so its returned to use in full salty winter commuting and this had reminded me how much I hate cleaning and lubing chains. So can I appeal to all new and existing 'manufacturers' to bring back shaft drive and take advantage of the real benefit of an electric bike - power to counteract inefficincy, either mechanical or human.
Cheers
Neil

 

[RoadieRoger]

Chains

Good point Neil about the chains .Why not belts , Harley use them successfully .That`s the beauty of modern Scooters , no messy chains to adjust and lube , virtually maintenance free . I should know, I have both methods of transmission on my powered two wheelers .

 

[NRG]

simple, belts are not as efficient as chains and with the limited power available from rider you need the most efficient transfer of power available. Also, with a belt you are limited to the gear range available form hub gears and single front chain ring.

 

[brucehawsker]

Loads to say but I am being dra..gg..gggg..ed to the pub by my better half. More tomorrow . I quite enjoy the torment except when I am tired - so sorry if my replies got tetchy....