Electric Bike wins Climate Change Innovation Competition

[bode]

Hmmmm... I get it, this only applies to me and not PED-Al who threw the first stone and did not apply any of the above

I should have thought that you might have better things to do in connection with the development of your business than to engage in a nyah! nyah! nyah! game of who said what first. But if you do want to go down that road, perhaps you should reply to others who have criticised the appearance of your bike.

Speaking of which, and based purely on aesthetic factors, without taking into account any engineering or ergonomic considerations, about which I am in no position to judge: I think your bike looks ludicrous. But what do I know; based on the same critieria I would say the same about recumbents.

We are all entitled to our subjective opinions without being personally attacked.

 

[MonVal Electra]

[

QUOTE=PED-AL;47505]Anyone that replies calling me stupid does not deserve a reasonable debate.
My post was my opinion of this contraption which stands.

It was more than that pal, YOU made insinuations without a shred of evidence to back you up where as I have actual and factual evidence which you clearly cannot be bothered to read about.

With reference to the upright position being correct for riding especially for someone with back problems I find that this is not the case.
Many people with back problems will tell you it is better to be leaning foreward with some of your weight on your wrists and therefore reducing the load on your back.
The foreward position also reduces any shock to your back from rough road surfaces as your body is pivoting around the front wheel spindle in effect rather than taking the direct hit from the rear wheel.
Generally poeple with back problems find some releif by crouching with a slight foreward lean after being upright for a time and becoming uncomfortable.
In my opinion the pedaling action of a conventional bicycle is much more efficient than the forward pedal machine and certainly puts less load on your back.
I talk from experience as I have tried both types.

LOL. You are arguing with a guy who works with a cycle organisation that specialises in assisting people with BACK TROUBLE and other disabilities to ride. I know well of the different types of back pains that people endure. If you'd bothered to read any of my earlier posts or seen my pictures, this would have been evident! - In fact, why do you think the MonVal was developed in the first place? - Also, you are not sat bolt upright, you are sat slightly at an angle to relieve pressure off the back - hence the term semi - recumbent!! - again read the posts and the website!!

I have a lifetime of mechanical engineering experience being a fully Qualified mould tool maker with 25+ years experience and 20 years experience as a technical manager for a highly respected Injection Moulding company -------------- stupid ?????????

Me - 20 years BT engineer, 20 years mechanical engineer, lifelong cycling enthusiast, in all its forms.

If the design of the bike is so 'inificient' as you claim and you are SOOOOO well qualified and a mould toolmaker at that, WHY DIDN'T YOU DESIGN SOMETHING BETTER!!!? - All I had to help me was an organisation that specialises in cycling for the disabled and a University that is a leader in transport design and the review of the machine was by someone who is very pro-bicycle and not overly keen on Ebikes, because he is young and very fit!!!!!

 

[MonVal Electra]

I should have thought that you might have better things to do in connection with the development of your business than to engage in a nyah! nyah! nyah! game of who said what first. But if you do want to go down that road, perhaps you should reply to others who have criticised the appearance of your bike.

Speaking of which, and based purely on aesthetic factors, without taking into account any engineering or ergonomic considerations, about which I am in no position to judge: I think your bike looks ludicrous. But what do I know; based on the same critieria I would say the same about recumbents.

We are all entitled to our subjective opinions without being personally attacked.

Bode - THIS - I DO NOT have problem with, because looks are subjective and you've laid down reasoned facts eg aesthetic factors and you are just stating your opinion. What PED-Al did was to make a scurrilous accusation with no basis in fact and despite evidence to the contrary.

But you are correct, I do have better things to do than to descend to this level of pettiness with him - I've got go and spend 40k

 

[flecc]

I don't find PED-AL's post on inefficiency objectionable and it's certainly not scurrilous, but I do think calling him stupid is totally unacceptable and an apology is due.

Semi recumbents are less efficient than the conventional diamond frame layout, that's a fact, and "transport experts" Coventry University should know that but probably don't. As we've previously shown, these semi-recumbent designs gave existed for more than a century but have always failed to replace the conventional layout. For some purposes like comfort, they have certain advantages, but superior efficiency isn't one of them.

Challenging PED-AL to design something better when the diamond frame layout perfected over more than a century already exists is somewhat pointless.
.

 

[bode]

I certainly would not buy one and I do not think many others will, it looks like a very inificient contraption to me and I would not want to try and ride it up a hill !!! ---well I would not want to be seen riding it at all to be honest.

The above looks like, and is stated to be, a personal opinion. I think we can all see from which quarter the pettiness is coming. One further suggestion, Andrew: grow up!

 

[the_killjoy]

On no basis whatsoever I had assumed that recumbants were more efficient because when pedalling hard you were reacting the legloads back through the seat.

I suppose we just all have assumptions and prejudices which are unencumbered by knowledge.

 

[MonVal Electra]

PED-Al isn't trying to promote a product so has no reason to endear himself to the forum, to me his post looked like a personal dig but calling anyone stupid won't make you look better.

Mussels you are correct and I retract that statement.

As for endearing myself to the forum - to be honest I've never tried.

Flecc - I cannot be bothered to have the whole recumbent / diamond frame debate all over again . This is Cyberspace and the proof of the pudding is in the eating - As mentioned before, you and anyone else who would care to try it in the flesh are welcome. Just PM me and I will arrange it - although give me 4 weeks - this way you can see how efficient / 'inificient' it is or isn't .

Bode - See, I grew up

 

[Mussels]

As for endearing myself to the forum - to be honest I've never tried.

You need to be a salesman all the time, especially with that username.

 

[flecc]

On no basis whatsoever I had assumed that recumbants were more efficient because when pedalling hard you were reacting the legloads back through the seat.

Because the legs are angled to the body, using the body as an anchor to the seatback isn't natural, since the thigh to body joint load should be more vertical and in line as in walking for example. For best efficiency the forces have to be applied through the muscle structure from thigh to body as in any other cycling.

That would seem to make the recumbent and diamond frame equal, but in fact the diamond frame layout makes better use of the bodyweight in a vertical mode aligned with gravitational force, and it also enables the arms musculature to contribute to that. That advantage is exaggerated when standing on the pedals in climbing at which time the arms contribution is very real.

It's for those reasons that recumbents and semi recumbents are slower hill climbers for a given rider ability.
.

 

[flecc]

Flecc - I cannot be bothered to have the whole recumbent / diamond frame debate all over again . This is Cyberspace and the proof of the pudding is in the eating - As mentioned before, you and anyone else who would care to try it in the flesh are welcome. Just PM me and I will arrange it - although give me 4 weeks - this way you can see how efficient / 'inificient' it is or isn't.

No need Andrew, I've ridden many semi and full recumbent variations, even electric ones, and am aware of their strengths and weaknesses. In the case of your design, not a criticism but I personally dislike "tiller steering", the rearward opposite rotational moment about the steering axis.

I've also just posted on the efficiency issue above to the_killjoy.
.

 

[MonVal Electra]

No need Andrew, I've ridden many semi and full recumbent variations, even electric ones, and am aware of their strengths and weaknesses. In the case of your design, not a criticism but I personally dislike "tiller steering", the rearward opposite rotational moment about the steering axis.

I've also just posted on the efficiency issue above to the_killjoy.
.

Flecc - The head angle on the MonVal is 70 degrees precisely to stop that tiller effect. The steering is akin to a cruiser style motor bike only not as slow turning.

Regarding hill climbing of recumbents over diamonds - ordinarily they would be slower but not when you've got THE most powerful road legal hub motor as I have to aid you.

Somebody from this forum, please, please, please come down and try it - this way, I will get independant review of its' abilities and it will put all these doubts to bed.

 

[PED-AL]

Not me thank you.

 

[flecc]

Flecc - The head angle on the MonVal is 70 degrees precisely to stop that tiller effect. The steering is akin to a cruiser style motor bike only not as slow turning.

Andrew, as your own photos so clearly show, the handgrips are markedly to the rear of the steering axis, so it tiller steers, the grips swinging from side to side in the opposite direction to that steered. It isn't a huge effect, but it's there.
.

 

[swinnerton]

Proof of pudding etc.

Hope this bicycle will be at Presteigne and we will be able to judge matters for ourselves.
Regards
Gerry

 

[Mussels]

Flecc - The head angle on the MonVal is 70 degrees precisely to stop that tiller effect. The steering is akin to a cruiser style motor bike only not as slow turning.

Regarding hill climbing of recumbents over diamonds - ordinarily they would be slower but not when you've got THE most powerful road legal hub motor as I have to aid you.

Somebody from this forum, please, please, please come down and try it - this way, I will get independant review of its' abilities and it will put all these doubts to bed.

Tiller steering would go the right way when countersteering and probably wouldn't be a big problem for a novice rider who doesn't do things so instinctively. I would like to have a ride as I think it may well work but Coventry is a bit far for me.

 

[Tiberius]

Hope this bicycle will be at Presteigne and we will be able to judge matters for ourselves.
Regards
Gerry

Exactly. Presteigne Race. I think there's a Hill Climb too.

Nick

 

[MonVal Electra]

I would like to have a ride as I think it may well work but Coventry is a bit far for me.

Hello Mussels - We will be travelling up and down the country shortly - PM me your details and lets see what we can arrange.

Hello Swinnerton - I would absolutely LOVE to do Prestigne but unfortunately it clashes with other commitments around that time

Just posted this before seeing tiberious's post.
Again, I would have loved to attend it. Because, as you say for the 2009 event there is now a hill climb and a throttle only section (correct me if I'm wrong)
We are aiming to try and do the Bike Europe gig in Friedrikshine (thats how it sounds to me) Germany. Although this is a lot of money, it is very good exposure and lot of the trade will be there.

 

[flecc]

Tiller steering would go the right way when countersteering and probably wouldn't be a big problem for a novice rider who doesn't do things so instinctively. I would like to have a ride as I think it may well work but Coventry is a bit far for me.

As I said Mussels, it wasn't a criticism, just an expression of my purely personal dislike of it when I've experienced it on recumbents. Even when it's degree is very slight I dislike it, but many semi recumbent riders are perfectly happy with it.
.

 

[Mussels]

As I said Mussels, it wasn't a criticism, just an expression of my purely personal dislike of it when I've experienced it on recumbents. Even when it's degree is very slight I dislike it, but many semi recumbent riders are perfectly happy with it.
.

That's part of the reason I want to try it, ape hangars look terrible to me but I've never ridden anything using them.

 

[Vikki]

Well, I'm glad it's quietened down in here - I was going to come in and spank some backsides...... Ok! Own up! Who just said "Me first, me first!"?

Vikki (scurrying away at a rate of knots).