Electric Bike law and the Torq

[flecc]

The eZeebike Torq's performance is being openly published and widely discussed now, and since it's in widespread use with the limiter disconnected, I wonder how long it will be before Torq users come unstuck? This subject has also appeared in the CTC forums, and the CTC will certainly have a number of police officer cyclists as members. After all, some forces do have a bit of a reputation for ignoring the major issues that really concern us, hitting on minor issues instead. What are your thoughts on this issue?

 

[rsscott]

As per the DfT factsheet entitled, "Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycles (EAPCs) in Great Britain":

"The electric motor must not be able to propel the machine when it is travelling at more than 15mph."

So from this we can deduce that it is within the law to exceed this speed as long as the motor doesn't provide any assistance above 15mph. In other words it is ok to pedal faster!

The Torq with the limiter removed is obviously easily able to exceed this speed in both e-bike mode and pedelec. Reports of 22mph are common. The grey area is what is worse - a Torq restricted with the rider pedalling hard to acheive 22mph or a Torq derestricted with the rider gently pedalling at 22mph ? Is one inherently more unsafe than the other?

 

[imellor]

No doubt at some point someone will be prosecuted, however I would like to think that it won't be someone who uses the extra speed sensibly.

There is also the other point about the torq having the switch to overide the Pedeletric functionality.

Ian

The eZeebike Torq's performance is being openly published and widely discussed now, and since it's in widespread use with the limiter disconnected, I wonder how long it will be before Torq users come unstuck? This subject has also appeared in the CTC forums, and the CTC will certainly have a number of police officer cyclists as members. After all, some forces do have a bit of a reputation for ignoring the major issues that really concern us, hitting on minor issues instead. What are your thoughts on this issue?

 

[flecc]

Incident

What prompted my thread entry was that a local officer who'd seen me riding electric bikes for years and normally taken no notice, was obviously following me at just over 20 mph, albeit with me pedalling. Luckily I use a bar end mirror in my urban area and spotted him, so I simulated both huge pedalling effort and gradually lost speed, faking out of breath as he then passed. I suppose I could have claimed it was a medical emergency, I was on my way to the dentist at the time!

 

[Tony Youens]

As I mentioned on another thread I don't remove the limiter on my Torq as I think it would reduce the range too far.

I'd be amazed if the police would bother checking the Torq but they might do at least once to make the rest of us stop and think.

It might be best to get one of those electric wheelchairs, they seem to be a law unto themselves.

Tony

 

[rsscott]

Interestingly, from the Swizzbee website:

"The swizzbee 50C is the first bike in Europe which has received approval to travel at unlimited speed"

Does anyone have any more information on this? It would appear this manufacturer has managed to bend the rules!

 

[flecc]

I understand that Germany has adopted the Swiss rules for the super class of bike, i.e. same as an ebike but with compulsory insurance and speed limit of 20 mph. There's nowhere in Europe where that Swizzbee comment applies, the rest of Europe has the pedelec rules, with Britain in the two law situation due to our old regs still in force as well as the European regs.

 

[aroncox]

What I'd like to do is fit an easy to access switch, so I can de- and re-limit my bike with ease. That could be useful for two reasons. Firstly if stopped I could re-limit and hopefully this wouldn't be noticed, but more importantly in the Summer I am happy to go at the standard speed and pedal more, but in the Winter I want to get to work asap as it's colder.

Anyone think that sounds possible? I am assuming the wires are nothing special to the limiter.

 

[rsscott]

I asked Tim at 50Cycles this question last month. His reply was:

"We already have one customer that added a switch to the limitier to make it easier to turn on or off.

The parts warranty will be covered but we will not be responsible for any faulty wiring caused or damage."

I'm considering doing this to my bike as there are times when I'm running low on power and it's quite difficult to get the Torq to hold a lower speed. Alternatively, to help keep the Torq at lower speeds, Flecc has documented an excellent modification on his site: http://users.tinyworld.co.uk/flecc/twistgrip.html

What I'd like to do is fit an easy to access switch, so I can de- and re-limit my bike with ease. That could be useful for two reasons. Firstly if stopped I could re-limit and hopefully this wouldn't be noticed, but more importantly in the Summer I am happy to go at the standard speed and pedal more, but in the Winter I want to get to work asap as it's colder.

Anyone think that sounds possible? I am assuming the wires are nothing special to the limiter.

 

[flecc]

Ditto, I intend to add a changeover switch for the limiter, just haven't got round to it yet. Literally any on/off switch will do, no harm can result from wiring in such a switch.

WARNING

I'm not so sure about switching it while the bike is switched on though, especially when on the move. I think it might be a wise precaution to only change over while turned off, to avoid any possible damage to the controller.

 

[rsscott]

That's a very important point there!!

I wonder if releasing the throttle so no power is being applied and then flicking the switch would be ok?

Ditto, I intend to add a changeover switch for the limiter, just haven't got round to it yet. Literally any on/off switch will do, no harm can result from wiring in such a switch.

WARNING

I'm not so sure about switching it while the bike is switched on though, especially when on the move. I think it might be a wise precaution to only change over while turned off, to avoid any posible damage to the controller.

 

[imellor]

Yes I intend to do the same, however I have two questions...

Does anyone know of a suitable handlebar mounting switch?

Does anyone know where to source the same type of connector as the link, that way I won't have to cut the wires and avoid any warranty issues hinted at above.

Ian

Ditto, I intend to add a changeover switch for the limiter, just haven't got round to it yet. Literally any on/off switch will do, no harm can result from wiring in such a switch.

WARNING

I'm not so sure about switching it while the bike is switched on though, especially when on the move. I think it might be a wise precaution to only change over while turned off, to avoid any posible damage to the controller.

 

[aroncox]

Yes, I'd be very interested in anyone's experiences on this and any parts they used. I'm not particulary handy myself, and although I'll get around to doing it one day I'll procrastinate out of fear of screwing it up.

 

[flecc]

Safe Switching and Switch Sources

Cutting the power before switching will help to give protection, but it depends on where the throttle is situated in the sequence, it won't necessarily affect the limiter link/controller relationship, so still an element of risk.

Re: A handlebar switch, a motorcycle dealer could be tried since those vehicles have to have waterproof switches. Some m'bikes have independent engine cutout switches on the handlebar, and these are single pole on/off, just what's needed. The bar diameter is often larger at up to 30 mm, but the clip might be alterable or it could have a bit of sleeve. The motorcycle dealer might even point you to a bike breaker where a few pence could fix you up.

 

[flecc]

The different types of connectors are a nightmare to match, on two twistgrips probaly from the same manufacturer, the seemingly identical connectors had different pin alignments! The best way to dodge around this without cutting off the connector is to slit the insulation of the wires going into the rear of the connector and solder in at that point. Then the wires could be desoldered and insulation used to disguise the wire access.

 

[oobs]

You have to love the internet when you can find somewhere talking about fitting a switch to toggle between limited and delimited on an obscure electric assist bike!! I want to fit a switch like this on my Torq. I have identified the terminals in the controller since I opened it up for major surgery some weeks ago. I just want to find a suitable swicth. Maplin only have PCB mounted stuff. To use one of thoswe would nean having an unsightly box to mount it into? Any more joy on the motorbike cutout side of things?

 

[flecc]

Not yet, I still haven't got round to doing mine due to being busy on so many things. Were you thinking of mounting direct on the controller box, oobs? If so, the motorbike ones would be too big and clumsy, they're strictly a handlebar job.

 

[flecc]

oobs

How about this Maplin solution:

Sub miniature toggle switch FH00A

Fully waterproof top for above JR79L

Both currently listed, they seem to be a likely compact solution, but need mounting somewhere.

 

[ITSPETEINIT]

A switch for delimiter

Hi all:
I came across a likely suitable switch (judge for yourselves) and what is more it has a 22 mm band to fit a Torq handlebar.
You can find it at:
http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.co.uk/VWPweb2000/mcycle-
2/mcycle-2.html

It is No. 2 on the list
Trouble is it is not 'modern' being a bit retro.
Peter

 

[flecc]

Nice one Peter, I thought motor cycle switches could give a solution. The above link is broken though, here it is corrected.
.