Ebikes versus normal bikes for commuting

[maloflora]

Hi all,


I'm looking to invest in an electric bike, but I wonder if I could get your advice on how it feels to shift from normal bikes to ebikes for regular commuting. My situation's about to change and I'd like to check if an ebike is what I need. I live in London and am in reasonable condition (though no athlete!).


On my normal bike, my current commute (home -> workplace A) is 2.6 miles and takes me around 15 minutes.


However, I may soon have to work out of workplace B, which is 7 miles away from home (4.4 miles further on in roughly a straight line) and would probably take around 35 minutes. I don't want to do this every day on a normal bike as I'm pretty sure I'll get to work knackered and not fit for anything (Notting Hill etc in the way). I'd probably also dread the ride home everyday too. I'll probably also have to start carting a laptop around with me as well.


Sometimes I'll also have to get to workplace A, then go to B and then home again. On a bad day, I may have to commute to B, go to meetings in A, back to B again and then home (this could be 7 + 4.4 + 4.4 + 7 = 23 miles a day). At the moment I generally use the Tube to do these trips.


Does it sound like an ebike is the answer here? Having test-ridden a few, I'm currently preferring a Kalkhoff C8 HS Impulse.


Is between 14 and 23 miles possible on one with not much more effort than the 5.2 miles I currently do every day on my normal bike?


What kind of average speed do you manage in urban areas? Would even my home to A commute be quicker than my current bike?


Hope that all makes sense - would appreciate any help. I'd hate to spend that much on a bike and still end up using the Tube!


Thanks,


Maloflora

 

[halfer]

Welcome to the forum, Maloflora.

I'm 34, male and reasonably physically fit. I do a 10-mile round trip on an electric bike nearly every working day, plus another 10 or so per week for leisure and supermarket runs. I have a couple of reasonably big hills to deal with on my way to work, and the motorised assistance is great there, since it means I arrive in the office exercised but not needing a shower. It's been such a good transport approach for me that I sold the car two years ago, and use an e-bike all year around.

It's quite possible to rely on a non-powered bike, especially if your journey won't involve any hills. But on a rainy Monday evening, when you're tired and not looking forward to a ride home, the electric assist is worth every penny, in my opinion. The snobbish bike-shop view that pedelecs are for the "old and infirm" is nonsense particularly for this reason.

In urban (flat) areas I expect to go at 20-25mph; a decent ebike will get you to 15mph without effort, and the rest you can do yourself. If you like some speed and there's some downhills, 30-35mph is quite achievable.

I tried a Kalkhoff C8 HS Impulse myself just recently, as it happens, but found it a bit reliable-but-dull. I'd not persuade someone against it - "reliable" is a great attribute - but would recommend that you try other bikes in that price point. I wanted to try a Wisper and Oxygen when I purchased just recently, but there may be a bit of a wait on those - stocks are low in the UK I believe. In the end I came away with an Ave MTB, which I am thrilled with, though I appreciate it will be too sporty for some.

What sort of frame are you looking for? Step-through tourer, cross-bar tourer, mountain bike or folder?

Edit: what's your budget? If you're in the £1800+ bracket (a starting price for a Kalkhoff) then do also look at the BH Emotion range.

 

[morphix]

Hi all,


I'm looking to invest in an electric bike, but I wonder if I could get your advice on how it feels to shift from normal bikes to ebikes for regular commuting. My situation's about to change and I'd like to check if an ebike is what I need. I live in London and am in reasonable condition (though no athlete!).


On my normal bike, my current commute (home -> workplace A) is 2.6 miles and takes me around 15 minutes.


However, I may soon have to work out of workplace B, which is 7 miles away from home (4.4 miles further on in roughly a straight line) and would probably take around 35 minutes. I don't want to do this every day on a normal bike as I'm pretty sure I'll get to work knackered and not fit for anything (Notting Hill etc in the way). I'd probably also dread the ride home everyday too. I'll probably also have to start carting a laptop around with me as well.


Sometimes I'll also have to get to workplace A, then go to B and then home again. On a bad day, I may have to commute to B, go to meetings in A, back to B again and then home (this could be 7 + 4.4 + 4.4 + 7 = 23 miles a day). At the moment I generally use the Tube to do these trips.


Does it sound like an ebike is the answer here? Having test-ridden a few, I'm currently preferring a Kalkhoff C8 HS Impulse.


Is between 14 and 23 miles possible on one with not much more effort than the 5.2 miles I currently do every day on my normal bike?


What kind of average speed do you manage in urban areas? Would even my home to A commute be quicker than my current bike?


Hope that all makes sense - would appreciate any help. I'd hate to spend that much on a bike and still end up using the Tube!


Thanks,


Maloflora

Welcome! I don't commute as such, but I do use my bike for a 5-6 mile daily round-trip to the sorting office and for me, even when I was fairly fit, it's a huge difference and benefit in time saving.

I don't think you would have any problem at all with your distance, even with a low spec small battery e-bike, if you're fit enough to pedal. I think it's worth it definitely, especially if you have to carry anything as I do.

For speed, I can maintain 20mph and above on the flat with my 250W 36v motor and 10Ah battery. I've done that 3 miles outward journey in about 7 mins.

The only problem is the weather! When it's raining or winter I just switch to using the Post Office or have collections, as I don't like riding in wet or cold weather

 

[eddieo]

I would look at a Bosch powered centre drive and a Wisper hub drive. By look I mean try..just see how you get on. once you have tried a selection you should be able to work out what fits. For commuting a Wisper makes a lot of sense, in short supply until new range appear, as they have moved production to Germany

 

[maloflora]

Thanks all for the warm welcome and the advice.

I've tried high-end bikes by Wisper, Kalkhoff, AVE, Sparta, Koga, Haibike and Storck Raddar. I feel most comfortable on crank drives and the Impulse / Bosch drives seem to suit me well. I also liked the high-speed roll-off of the Agattu particularly.

Frame-wise I'm happy with step-through or cross-bar - no need for folder or mountain bike.

My worry about the AVE (which felt great) was the battery - will around 8Ah be enough for up to 25 miles a time on full assistance?

I'd love to try the BH E-motion but I can't seem to find a dealer that currently stocks them in London. Any ideas?

Thanks again!

M

 

[eddieo]

here is a review that explains Bosch system. It is a very efficient system. Nice to see someone making the effort and doing some homework..

http://www.electricbike.com/bosch-cannondale/

 

[GORDONAL]

Thanks all for the warm welcome and the advice.

I've tried high-end bikes by Wisper, Kalkhoff, AVE, Sparta, Koga, Haibike and Storck Raddar. I feel most comfortable on crank drives and the Impulse / Bosch drives seem to suit me well. I also liked the high-speed roll-off of the Agattu particularly.

Frame-wise I'm happy with step-through or cross-bar - no need for folder or mountain bike.

My worry about the AVE (which felt great) was the battery - will around 8Ah be enough for up to 25 miles a time on full assistance?

I'd love to try the BH E-motion but I can't seem to find a dealer that currently stocks them in London. Any ideas?

Thanks again!

M

Had my 8Ah batteried AVE now for 7 weeks . With the 4 main levels of assist ECO,TOUR,SPORT,SPEED you will easily achieve 25 miles even on Speed which i think is a 250% setting. I feel sure that this assistance is probably more than you need I find i use Tour (level3) much of the time on flat roads. I tried the Aguttu before buying my AVE admittedly two differing styles of machine but comparing drive systems one had a decided edge over the other

happy hunting Alan

 

[Kudoscycles]

Thanks all for the warm welcome and the advice.

I've tried high-end bikes by Wisper, Kalkhoff, AVE, Sparta, Koga, Haibike and Storck Raddar. I feel most comfortable on crank drives and the Impulse / Bosch drives seem to suit me well. I also liked the high-speed roll-off of the Agattu particularly.

Frame-wise I'm happy with step-through or cross-bar - no need for folder or mountain bike.

My worry about the AVE (which felt great) was the battery - will around 8Ah be enough for up to 25 miles a time on full assistance?

I'd love to try the BH E-motion but I can't seem to find a dealer that currently stocks them in London. Any ideas?

Thanks again!

M

We have 1 BH E Motion 700 left in stock,not too far from London and a nice area to test a bike-the photos on our website give some flavour,
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[firrrip]

Hi Maloflora

Having recently purchased a BH Emotion Neo Cross, I would definitely recommend it.

Although I am based in West London, the closest dealer I could find was in Battersea and I found them VERY helpful - knowledgeable and generous with advice and information:

Electric Bike | Electric Bikes | Electric Bicycle - eBikes Direct
020 7720 7973

Two months ago they had at least 2 different BH Emotion bikes in stock but these were not shown on their website for some reason. I rode them both - a cross-bar and step-through. They also stock Wispers, Kudos bikes and many others.


I understand this dealer in Coulsdon also stocks them:

The UK
020 8660 8823


My research indicated that, on maximum power, the Bosch motor adds 2.5x effort to your pedalling and the Neo Cross 3x effort. I do not know if that makes a great deal of difference to a ride of the length you may be faced with.

In practice, I find that getting to 15mph on the flat is effortless and pushing on to 25mph exercises my thighs, as all assistance fades out after 15mph.

Going up hills is fantastic though. I don't know the gradient of my local hills but they are pretty steep and I get up them at 12mph, which really speeds up my journey time. One thing I haven't yet full mastered is controlling the bike when pulling off from a standing start. The power kicks in and if not totally ready for it, it can feel like I'm surging almost out of control.

I really liked the Agattu from 50cycles - much preferring the 11-speed version as I wasn't convinced the 8-speed kept up with me, even on the flat.

Good luck!

Phil

 

[halfer]

Good question about the range on a smaller battery. My old Juicy Sport (a sub-£1000 hub bike) with a 10Ah battery would do 10 miles on a charge, probably because I used to hang onto the throttle! If I'd just made do with the pedal sensor, I probably would have gotten 20+ miles out of that on a newer battery.

However with the Ave - as with all crank drive bikes - there is no throttle! Also, it is much more efficient than a hub bike, because the motor benefits from the gearing system - just as the rider does. I am trying to stay in more efficient modes (either Tour 3 or Sport 2) and am currently charging every other day (so, every 20 miles). I am pretty sure I could make it last a great deal longer if I wanted to. As Gordonal says, in practise you won't need it on maximum setting (Speed 3).

The benefit of the 8Ah battery btw is primarily the weight saving. I can now comfortably carry my 22Kg Ave - previous bike at 23.5Kg was a bit of a slog when carrying it between railway platforms!

 

[eddieo]

The neo cross may be good on hills but it has a demanding 350 watt motor, must have a comparably demanding controller or why else does it perform..and all this drawn from a small battery ( for a hub bike)

Uses very cheap shocks and gear set (under £100 for both!) whereas other bikes at same price point have far Better spec....then you have battery replacement or upgrade to consider due to inframe battery. bike dont add up or makes sense to me. if you want hub drive, the superb Wisper SEL does make absoloute sense. large battery, top quality XT gear set and shocks, no comparison and cheaper...,less sporty looking for sure but ride like a BMW

Hub motor bikes are a bit more exciting (mine is!) but they don't feel as bionic or natural to ride....Bosch now available with 11ah battery that fits 8ah holder so present bikes upgradable.....


For a boring long commute with not to many hills I would take my hub drive bike....

 

[maloflora]

Thanks all.

I'll try and test a BH E-motion tomorrow!

M

 

[GaRRy]

Eddie you really must stop having a dig at a bike that you have never even tried.

Battery life is fine. I did 28 miles on a single charge on a cold winters day recently. Which is even better when you add in I weigh 112 kilos and this was mainly off road on the Tissington and high peaks trails in peak district.

 

[GaRRy]

Thanks all.

I'll try and test a BH E-motion tomorrow!

M

Just to make you aware BH Emotion do 4 ranges of ebikes .

1 using Bosch crank drives
1 using panasonic crank drives
1 using a front hub motor
and the hub motor NEO range.

My comments are regarding the NEO range although if you can try the others as well as you may prefer them (or hate them all).

worth having a nose around uk web site EasyMotion Electric Bicycles by BH - BH Emotion UK

Good luck in which ever bike you choose to buy (if any)

 

[eddieo]

Eddie you really must stop having a dig at a bike that you have never even tried.

I dont need to try it to know it has cheap components and offers poor value. Range has its critics over on German forum as well....

 

[GaRRy]

I dont need to try it to know it has cheap components and offers poor value. Range has its critics over on German forum as well....

I your humble opinion. Me and others quite obviously disagree. I keep saying best components fittted to a poor package still make a poor package (Haibikes lack of UK support springs to mind). Its the complete package that matters and as a complete package the NEO works well (IMHO).

 

[eddieo]

Ha ha ha...your getting ridiculous now, Haibike in a different class.

I dont care how well it goes still poor components, not opinion fact, so poor value and over priced, and then the elephant in the room, the battery

 

[maloflora]

Thanks - I'll take all this into account. I think a lot of it for me will be the feel of the motor which you can only get by trying them out!

On balance, I would prefer a bike with hub gears, as I expect to have to change at traffic lights. I suppose that moves me in the direction of crank systems...

 

[eddieo]

as you have noticed another limitation of rear hub motors restriction, on gear sets...and why i prefer front motors, as I like good gear sets on a bike

2013 KTM with 11 speed alfina and 11 Ah battery

Or Grace MX (Wisper are UK distributers) nuvinci hub and gates drive...

http://www.gracebikes.co.uk/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMBHO8Dccdk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8XT1gDjD5g

 

[GaRRy]

Ha ha ha...your getting ridiculous now, Haibike in a different class.

I dont care how well it goes still poor components, not opinion fact, so poor value and over priced, and then the elephant in the room, the battery

A £500 banger that works is far better than a Ferrari that wont start when you need to get to work.

Not saying a NEO is as good as a Haibike as it costs more so should be better but at least with the NEO I know (from experience) if something goes wrong I will get help from distributor/manufacturer in getting it fixed.

As for the Battery thats a matter of opinion and have you noticed how more and more bikes are coming supplied with Samsung batteries which are what are in NEO's Battery pack ?.