Ebike battery fire

StuartsProjects

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May 9, 2021
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Another one
Yes another one that happened.

A very serious omission is that there appears to be no information or detail given to the public about the cause of each of these 'incidents'.

I suspect the Fire Brigade etc, do know, but they seem to just keep putting out generic advice.

Is it dodgy chargers ?

Is it dodgy batteries ?

Is it people overcharging batteries ?
 

AndyBike

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 8, 2020
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Maybe its a good idea to get a large dry powder fire extinguisher in, just in case :confused:

My Bosch 4A charger says its 36v.
Now having a shop bought boutique bike such information im clueless about. But why is the ones youre talking about 42v and mine only 36v.
 
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Az.

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 27, 2022
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Plymouth
Maybe its a good idea to get a large dry powder fire extinguisher in, just in case :confused:
I don't think extinguisher would be effective. Judging by intensity of battery fires and amount of smoke it is better to evacuate than to fight fire.
 

StuartsProjects

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May 9, 2021
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Maybe its a good idea to get a large dry powder fire extinguisher in, just in case :confused:
You dont have one ?

Shocking.

I have a 6kg one next to the door on my shed\workshop where all the battery charging happens. Its there since if a problem develops I can maybe escape, grab the extinguisher on the way out and blast the inside of the shed\workshop from the outside.
 

AndyBike

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Nov 8, 2020
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You dont have one ?

Shocking.
I do actually, thank you very much, and was just checking it. But it should be noted that its a class D, and standard powder is A,B,C. So it looks like I'll maybe think about getting possibly stealing a class D, just to be safe.

Mind you my rig is proper made in Germany stuff, none of that imported Chinese tat you guys have ;)
 

guerney

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Sep 7, 2021
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Surely there was an anomalous spike in temperature a minute or so before the lithium cell casings exploded, which would have been detected by a cheap temperature activated siren, if it's temperature probe was gaffa taped to the battery case, and the siren's triggering temperature was 40 degrees centigrade? Advance warning of a minute or so could be useful, if before commencing charging the battery was situated on a trolley or gurney or something, making it easier to transport the pre-flaming battery outside without touching it, to throw into a water butt.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lotvic-Temperature-Controller-Thermostat-Greenhouse/dp/B0BL7CHS1F/
 
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StuartsProjects

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May 9, 2021
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I do actually, thank you very much, and was just checking it. But it should be noted that its a class D, and standard powder is A,B,C. So it looks like I'll maybe think about getting a class D, just to be safe.
The big jobie extinquisher in the shed is OK, or at least I assume it is, since its not so easy to test them, apart from checking the pressure gauge and keeping it within its service life.

What perhaps some might not realise is how quickly Litihium batteries can go bad.
 

guerney

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I'd rather fling the damn thing out of my home before the battery got explodey. Saves redecorating.


Claims to be sole UK distributor:



Europe:

 
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WheezyRider

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Apr 20, 2020
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I do actually, thank you very much, and was just checking it. But it should be noted that its a class D, and standard powder is A,B,C. So it looks like I'll maybe think about getting possibly stealing a class D, just to be safe.

Mind you my rig is proper made in Germany stuff, none of that imported Chinese tat you guys have ;)
"Made" in Germany from Chinese parts and batteries?
 

chris_n

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 29, 2016
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Niedeau, Austria
Maybe its a good idea to get a large dry powder fire extinguisher in, just in case :confused:

My Bosch 4A charger says its 36v.
Now having a shop bought boutique bike such information im clueless about. But why is the ones youre talking about 42v and mine only 36v.
36V is the nominal voltage, fully charged is 41.5 even on a Bosch.
 
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AndyBike

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Nov 8, 2020
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What perhaps some might not realise is how quickly Litihium batteries can go bad.
The last few vids we've seen of them the owner is standing looking intensely at the bike before it blows. So clearly its making some sort of noise, possibly a whistling or humming sound prior to going bang.
It seems you get a bit of warning. How long though I do not know.
 

StuartsProjects

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May 9, 2021
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It seems you get a bit of warning.
Lets hope so.

My only direct experience was when a small Lithium Polymer exploded in a big fireball as I threw it out the door of my shed\workshop.

The 'bit of warning' I had was less than 10 seconds.
 
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guerney

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Sep 7, 2021
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The 'bit of warning' I had was less than 10 seconds.
IMHO that's long enough to fling the charging battery out of an open window, if the battery was situated on a skateboard and in a box, on a long plank hinged near the window pane. Wheeled and boxed, in case it gets melty; prevents battery case plastic sticking to the ramp en route to the water butt outside.
 
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WheezyRider

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IMHO that's long enough to fling the charging battery out of an open window, if the battery was situated on a skateboard and in a box, on a long plank hinged near the window pane. Wheeled and boxed, in case it gets melty; prevents battery case plastic sticking to the ramp en route to the water butt outside.
Do you only recharge with the pack on the bucket of a trebuchet? At the first sign of trouble it is fired out of harms way...
 
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guerney

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Do you only recharge with the pack on the bucket of a trebuchet? At the first sign of trouble it is fired out of harms way...
I see no safe reason why my charging battery's case surface temperature would exceed 40 degrees centigrade, which would trigger the siren, alerting me to take an axe to the rope securing the bucket...

Alternatively, I could utilise my new Aldi bike stand, for home destruction by ebike battery fire prevention:

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/what-temperature-indicates-the-start-of-thermal-runaway-in-a-lithium-ion-battery.45623/#post-685567
 
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AndyBike

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Nov 8, 2020
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"Made" in Germany from Chinese parts and batteries?

Though made with love and care in a proper factory, full testing, attention to detail all to German standards.

Yours on the other hand are probably cobbled together in someones shed in rural China.

I can understand your jealousy.
 
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soundwave

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May 23, 2015
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they dont make the batts in germany tho not the bosch ones anyway and there bearings are shite peters are way better ;)
 

WheezyRider

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Apr 20, 2020
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Though made with love and care in a proper factory, full testing, attention to detail all to German standards.

Yours on the other hand are probably cobbled together in someones shed in rural China.

I can understand your jealousy.

You are hilarious. I'm sure the people in your local bike shop think the same - but are all too glad to take your money.

So you've been totally taken in by the German engineering myth? I'm not saying German engineering is terrible, but it's not what it was 30 to 40 years ago. I have bought loads of German branded stuff over the years and I've often been disappointed, whether it's cars, washing machines, tools, fridge freezers etc. The frequency of disappointment has accelerated in the last couple of decades. You pay a lot of money for it, and yet it still lets
you down. Hence the thought of pouring more cash down the drain on a "German Engineered" bike does not appeal to me at all.

After all, we all know just how "honest" German engineering is don't we? We have proof of that with the VW (and others) Diesel scandal. So you want to buy bike technology with built in obsolescence? Want to buy stuff that is designed to go wrong deliberately so you have to buy new? Want to be locked into an expensive proprietary system you can't do anything with? Sure go ahead and get one those things with some TüV stickers on them.

I have been tempted in the past to get one of these Bosch mid drive motor bikes, but there is the expense of the initial outlay, then the expense of maintaining it, the expense of buying spare batteries/chargers etc (compared to generic stuff) and then there is no guarantee it will work reliably. I have spoken to bike shop technicians who have told me that they get a significant number of Bosch motor failures and usually it's a case of swapping out the motor for a new one and hoping for the best, they can't repair anything. Annoying, but OK perhaps while under warranty, but potentially catastrophic for a proprietary bike outside of warranty.

There is also the "feel" of riding a mid drive. To me it is horrible, like the bike is fighting you for control. It feels unnatural and annoying. With a hub motor it does what you tell it to do and it feels more natural.

Then a couple of weeks ago, I was sooooo glad I did not have a Bosch mid drive. I was miles from home in the middle of nowhere when my derailleur hanger snapped. It did a lot of damage, but I was able to get home thanks to the rear hub and ghost pedalling the PAS. If I'd had one of your "fancy" bikes I would have been completely stuffed.

When it comes to buying Chinese stuff, don't delude yourself into thinking stuff you buy in Europe has been made in Europe. Most of it will have been made in China. Years ago I did some temp work in a German car radio factory. The job involved unpacking car radios made in the far east, removing the flap from the cassette player (I hope this isn't wasted on you and you know what a cassette is?) and replacing it with one that had a Volvo logo on it. Then it went into a new box that said "Made in the EU".

It will be the same with a lot of the stuff you buy for your bike with a "German made" sticker on it. Yes, I buy stuff from China, or from companies that sell Chinese made stuff. But I do my own quality control. I take stuff apart and check it inside and out. Sometimes I completely rebuild stuff so that I am happy with it. I push my kit to the limit at times and part of the fun is seeing how far you can go before it breaks. You certainly learn a lot in the process. Also, in terms of the cost, it's a fraction of the cost of being trapped in the Bosch proprietary bubble.

So, thanks but no thanks to your "German made" stuff with genuine stickers.