The motor maker AKM is the manufacturer since adding that is what created the pedelec.
The law states the label should be on the cycle in a "conspicuous and easily accessible position", not the motor.
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E-Bikes: The phenomenon, The Problem.
- Thread starter soundwave
- Start date
The law states the label should be on the cycle in a "conspicuous and easily accessible position", not the motor.
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Oh no!
This plaque's stiff plastic does soften up with gentle heat and careful force; with patience can be formed by hand. I may indeed be able to get enough curvature to fit around the seatpost... trouble is, I'd have to sacrifice an inch of folding compactness, and stability on the ground when folded, because when the bike is folded, the seatpost is designed to stick out underneath the frame (beyond the chainwheel), for the bike to rest balanced on the ground - I'll have to see if a seatpost fixing for this plaque is workable.
To get a better fit on a curved surface, I will have to heat then press the plaque against it repeatedly: heat, press, heat, press etc. So far, the electroplating or thin bonded metal sheet, has proved thick enough to not crack. If I couldn't have curved it this much, the lesser curvature of the lower part of the handlebar post would have been the only other plaque fixing position at a higher altitude than the rest of my Dahon Helios P8's frame.
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I don't agree at all. I say put the label on the motor.
As long as any third party can see the label when you show them where it is, it's compliant.
If asked, just spin the wheel round until the label is upwards, then point to it. If it's covered in dirt, wipe it with your finger. In the case of a crank motor, put the back brake on and pull the bars back so that the bike stands on its back wheel.
The nearer your label looks to OEM, the better. If you have a home-made or Ebay label on your head-tube overlapping the bike maker's badge, it's going to be obvious and attract more questions, like where did you get that label? Things will go down rapidly from there if you're not careful or lucky.
The police are going to be more interested in whether your bike is legal regarding motor power and speed than whether it has the correct label. The idea of the label is to provide evidence from the manufacturer of your bike's compliant with those things. They're going to ask basic questions, like how fast does it go and what power the motor is. You have to convince them with your answer and the label. Sticking a home-made label on the cross-bar is not going to do that. If anything, it'll make them suspicious.
If you did get checked and they would see your home made label and asked about it, just affirm that your motor is 250w, the cut-off speed is 25.5mph and that you stuck the label on because it says on the government website that you must have one, and you're not trying to trick anyone with it.
You guys are nuts.
Police check on ebikes:
1.
"Allo, allo, what have we got here then?"
"It's a Dahon Uno with a Q85 motor running at 36v and 12 amps. It's the lowest power ebike motor you can get, but the bike's pretty light and so am I, so it just about does the job."
"How fast does it go?"
"The motor cuts off at 25km/hr. Look, I'll lift the wheel off the ground and show you."
"Where's the label?"
"It's down there on the motor. See, it says 250w on it"
"Serge, another one here. The label's not accessible enough. That's six in the last hour. I'll chuck in in the skip with the others".
2.
"Allo, allo, what have we got here then? That motor is pretty big. I've never see one that large before, and that battery? It must be enough to power a house"
" Looks can be decieving. It's a 250w ebike that goes a maximum speed of 25 km/hr and is EN15194 and EC compliant. See, it has a label on the front, half covering the bike manufacturer's badge."
" Oh, right then. On you go."
It would be interesting to know what the plods on the ground on these "crackdowns" have been told what to look for and how to respond to it.
E-bike problems and the police, is going to be like peeling an onion. The more layers you go through, the more difficult the situation, and the more difficult your withdrawal.
First layer, don't be conspicuous...... Don't get noticed....
Don't overtake a police vehicle that is doing 30mph on a road with a speed limit of 30mph. Don't ride a bike during daylight hours with a hub motor large enough to pull an articulated lorry.
Don't ride recklessly. This is an offence with or without a motor.
If you get noticed, what will get you stopped or spoken to? Having an accident, with or without someone else involved. Riding recklessly in front of a police officer.
Once you have been approached, there is either going to be some general interest which may or may not be personal interest ("I've been thinking about buying one of these"), or you will be losing another layer of the onion as the officer has previously noticed you flying around town and has decided you might be breaking a law or two....
I surmise, any pedelec (a purpose built bike/trike, within EN spec) already has all the labelling it needs. Those fitted with aftermarket kits are the ones that need labelling. Mid-drives must have some flat space where additional labelling can be fixed surely, if required? Duplicate labelling can be fixed to the hard cases of battery packs if there is a hard case to label. Clear silicone should provide enough adhesion to keep the labels in place without damaging the plastic. Hub motors if they don't already have labelling, the flimsy silver labels that can easily be stuck to the hub are suitable enough?
Unless there is a specification that says otherwise, surely this labelling is a bit like learner car drivers or learner motorcycle riders having to display "L" plates. As long as they are clearly visible, there's no hard rule on where they are placed?
Like motor vehicle drivers caught with no insurance, if you have been caught riding an e-bike at 35mph without using your pedals and weren't on a steep downhill slope, you likely are not going home with your e-bike whatever the "label" says?
I think law-abiding riders have nothing to worry about, just like law-abiding car drivers. The police are not looking for a problem, unless one lands at their feet. Crash, or ride so dangerously someone chooses to ring the police to alert them to you riding style, will get you unwanted attention. Best avoid both situations?
First layer, don't be conspicuous...... Don't get noticed....
Don't overtake a police vehicle that is doing 30mph on a road with a speed limit of 30mph. Don't ride a bike during daylight hours with a hub motor large enough to pull an articulated lorry.
Don't ride recklessly. This is an offence with or without a motor.
If you get noticed, what will get you stopped or spoken to? Having an accident, with or without someone else involved. Riding recklessly in front of a police officer.
Once you have been approached, there is either going to be some general interest which may or may not be personal interest ("I've been thinking about buying one of these"), or you will be losing another layer of the onion as the officer has previously noticed you flying around town and has decided you might be breaking a law or two....
I surmise, any pedelec (a purpose built bike/trike, within EN spec) already has all the labelling it needs. Those fitted with aftermarket kits are the ones that need labelling. Mid-drives must have some flat space where additional labelling can be fixed surely, if required? Duplicate labelling can be fixed to the hard cases of battery packs if there is a hard case to label. Clear silicone should provide enough adhesion to keep the labels in place without damaging the plastic. Hub motors if they don't already have labelling, the flimsy silver labels that can easily be stuck to the hub are suitable enough?
Unless there is a specification that says otherwise, surely this labelling is a bit like learner car drivers or learner motorcycle riders having to display "L" plates. As long as they are clearly visible, there's no hard rule on where they are placed?
Like motor vehicle drivers caught with no insurance, if you have been caught riding an e-bike at 35mph without using your pedals and weren't on a steep downhill slope, you likely are not going home with your e-bike whatever the "label" says?
I think law-abiding riders have nothing to worry about, just like law-abiding car drivers. The police are not looking for a problem, unless one lands at their feet. Crash, or ride so dangerously someone chooses to ring the police to alert them to you riding style, will get you unwanted attention. Best avoid both situations?
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You say, but that is not what the law says, so I'm answering the question correctly. If someone is nervous enough to go to all the trouble of labelling to comply with the law, they might as well complete the compliance.
But that's for the nervous who are inquiring what the law is. As the rest of your post says, it really doesn't matter whether the pedelec is labelled or not, no police officer would ever attempt a charge of not having a label. No pedelec I've ever ridden has had a label with all the correct details, most had no labelling at all.
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I think the slower you ride the more likely you will wet caught. Having that in mind if police tries to stop me my plan is as follows:
1. Ditch my helmet.
I ordered five:
Bell Tracker Helmet | Chain Reaction
Buy your Bell Tracker Helmet from our Mountain Bike Helmets range at CRC. £7.40. Free delivery available.
2. Change direction towards nearest bollards
3. Avoid direct contact with lampposts and ambulances.
I hope they disengage at some point. If not it will be the most boring 15.5mph chase in their lives.
I am not risking my bike crushed only because it might have label in wrong place.
As matter of interest on the subject of labelling, the 1983 EAPC regulation required a label on every pedelec giving the Manufacturer's name, the Battery voltage and the Motor power output in Watts or Kilowatts.
And until the 6th April 2015, that power output was limited to 200 watts according to that law.
During the period between those two dates, a large number of British police forces trialled pedelecs from major well known suppliers for various patrol duties over extended periods.
Without exception every one of the supplied pedelecs was a 250 watt machine, breaking the EAPC power limit of 200 watts.
And none of them were ever fully labelled according to law.
That should give some idea of how closely the police look at the regulations.
And it's not just pedelecs. As we all know Segways are illegal on our streets and pavements. But the Devon and Cornwall Constabulary use Segways to patrol the seaside beaches and when a carnival is in progress they've taken them illegally onto the town streets for patrol duties.
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And until the 6th April 2015, that power output was limited to 200 watts according to that law.
During the period between those two dates, a large number of British police forces trialled pedelecs from major well known suppliers for various patrol duties over extended periods.
Without exception every one of the supplied pedelecs was a 250 watt machine, breaking the EAPC power limit of 200 watts.
And none of them were ever fully labelled according to law.
That should give some idea of how closely the police look at the regulations.
And it's not just pedelecs. As we all know Segways are illegal on our streets and pavements. But the Devon and Cornwall Constabulary use Segways to patrol the seaside beaches and when a carnival is in progress they've taken them illegally onto the town streets for patrol duties.
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If the police are testing no load speed and assuming that's top speed ie holding the powered wheel off the ground and activating the throttle, isn't every throttled ebike with a cutoff of 25km/h going to show a little more than 25km/h on the speedo? Hope that's not what they did with the third bike mentioned on the audio recording on this page:
Exactly! TF!! Is it a smidge or a wodge? How much of a smidge is acceptable? At what point does a smidge turn into a wodge? Does a smidge become a midge before becoming a wodge? Is a midge going to get your battery confiscated?
I'll flatten it again then, or order another one for the motor. Mind you... curved and sticking out could make for a handy fountain pen holder, in case the police need me to sign confession. Fountain pen, because there'd be lots of my sprayed blood about to use as ink, before I'd agree to do so.
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Well the limit is 25kmph, and that is the limit.
However, its a bit like the speed limits in general. The so called 'guidance' the Police use for speed cameras adds a 10% + maybe 4mph allowance. But that does not make driving at 30.1mph legal.
Dont know.
I have been to midge central, the Glenbrittle campsite on the Isle of Skye when climbing on the Cullin ridge, but that was long long before the time of modern eBikes, so I had no batteries to confiscate, apart from the AAs in my headtorch.
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That's what I'll be doing. I'll also give them a tour of the display to show speed limit, wave in the general direction of the detached throttle on my handlebar saying "Doesn't work, see? Press and it doesn't go vroom vroom". I may even let them ride it around a bit, but only if they give me their wallets, phones, car keys and first born as hostages... and only if the value of those items resold, redeemed, or enslaved are of greater monetary value than the monies I've thrown into my bike shaped pit.
Whatever it might say on an LCD screen is irrelevant. It's not an officially calibrated device or system. It would have to be put on a calibrated rolling road. For instance, the LCD is likely to have production variability, but even if it is recording properly, you might have the LCD indicating 15.5 mph, but because you put fatter or thinner tyres on, your speed is higher or lower than registered.
If we voted for ambassadors to represent kit converters in meetings making laws, would Chinese manufacturers be persuaded by that group to make kits suitable for the UK market? Trouble is, prices would probably increase, and people would buy the cheap stuff.
I could try to make mine more accurare. Wheel diameter in the DPC-18 controller increases by increments of an inch, it might even be switchable to cms, unsure will check.
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