E-bike seizures surge as police take 'death traps' off the streets

[Az.]

There are no rules about how to rate a motor's power, except that you mustn't overrate it, and there's a test for that. A manufacturer can underrate a motor as much as they want. They can even supply different versions to different markets.

From our point of view, the only thing that matters is that the manufacturer has rated the motor at 250w or less and labelled it accordingly. It's not for us to get involved in how the rating is done. It's far too complicated for most people to understand anyway, especially when most people have wrongly fixed the idea in their minds that the maximum output power has anything to do with it.

Absolutely. This is the reason why I bought motor from Woosh and not from PSW.

There is one very important rule though. Motor must be rated by manufacturer.

 

[Az.]

Can you post a link to the Engwe bike that has been seized?
As far as I know, if the bike is described as EN15194 compliant, it must not have twist and go throttle.

All I have is the picture you can see. It looks like EP-2 PRO International, but I can be wrong.

They provide very vague information about rated power

Engwe EP-2 Pro Combo | Long Range Folding Electric Bikes

The best value Engwe EP-2 Pro Combo includes different combinations such as e-bike combo, e-bike and accessory combo, etc. Come and choose the right combo!

engwe-bikes-uk.com

 

[Woosh]

They describe it as a 750W bike, clearly not street legal without number plate.

 

[Ghost1951]

I've absolutely no patience with these delivero, fast Frankenbikes flying about at speed and not pedalling them, or thinly disguised mopeds masquerading as EAPCs. If you want a moped - just get one it's not exactly onerous to put one on the road and stay legal.

The last time I taxed the old 125cc CG 125 that is in the garage it cost aboyt £19 a year and the insurance was negligible. I have two taxed and insured motorbikes in the garage and I have barely used them this summer and am riding about happily on my Argos folder.

All these outlaws are going to do is create a lot of trouble for everyone else.

Message to the police. Get off your ar se and catch them. Also - charge Deliverooo or any other employer of these people with aiding and abetting. They know full well what is going on. They are also as far as I can see, mostly employing illegal migrants and fuelling the cross channel boat trips business.

 

[Craiggor 2]

How do the police test at the road side ? If they just lift the back wheel and twist the throttle or spin the pedals everyone should be worried about having their bike impounded.

 

[Az.]

How do the police test at the road side ? If they just lift the back wheel and twist the throttle or spin the pedals everyone should be worried about having their bike impounded.

I don't think you should have reasons to worry. Even if police will do test in the air, bike should stop assisting at 25 airkm per hour.

 

[Ghost1951]

I thought some of the hysterical headlines about ebikes with a one kilowatt motor being capable of 71 miles an hour were a bit funny though. You need about 15 kilowatts for that speed.
It might spin the wheel in the air at an equivalent road speed of 71 miles an hour, but it wouldn't go above moped speed on a flat road where it had a load and some wind resistance to overcome.

 

[saneagle]

How do the police test at the road side ? If they just lift the back wheel and twist the throttle or spin the pedals everyone should be worried about having their bike impounded.

That's what I've seen them do, but you have a good defence against it. First of all, the LCD isn't calibrated and might be set completely wrong. Secondly, whith the wheel off the ground, the response time of the controller isn't quick enough to cut the motor at whatever you set it to, so it's not unusual to see a bit of extra speed like that, which wouldn't happen when riding the bike and the motor under load. I doubt that they'd do anything unless it's over 20 mph anyway.

 

[Voltsnamps]

You shouldn't get confused between watts from the battery and watts from the motor. There is no direct relationship. When you bring the word "continuous" into the requirement, it means in all normal riding circumstances, including going up steep hills. In other words, the motor needs to be able to output 250w when going up a steep hill with efficiency as low as 30% without overheating. Actually, there are not many motors that can do that. When they test a motor to see if it meets its rating, they run it at its maximum efficiency rpm. You would therefore need a safety factor of 3 or 4 if that motor were to be used in an ebike that might have to go up hills.

Touche, mon ami
Exactly why we have troubled with “corrected” horsepower limits on ice vehicles for so long. Dynos calibrate to sea level, 20*C, atmospheric pressure etc. Your moped or class A2 horsepower restricted motorbike will make it’s maximum power ONLY on a level playing field.
Consistent, nominal or other vague terms make much more sense. Getting up my favourite hill at 15.6 mph on my epac needs way more than 250w from my controller but am I putting 250watts (about 1/3 of one brake horsepower) into the back wheel ? Totally irrelevant when one man’s mountain is another man‘s hill. Fortune smiles when I return,
The European standard is of course, Mt Blanc, from the lake (Geneva) to the tunnel. All certified 250watt pedelecs MUST be able to maintain 25kmph all the way, for geriatrics we allow starting at Chamonix. A nice average speed UP that road IMHO
On the way back there is no speed limit, just fun.,
Totally fair and just, vive la France and f#ck the Dutch, no downhill for them , 25kmph is their lot.
Keyboard warriors should have a go, 250 nominal watt proving, you need SFA watts (or horsepower) to go very fast indeed.
Foldies self restrict, of course, as do hubbies, just proving Darwin was correct. All as it should be.

 

[Az.]

E-bike seizures are like battery fires and unicorns. Everybody knows they exist, but nobody has ever seen one, so no... we don't know what police do when they want to find out if bike is legal or not

 

[saneagle]

E-bike seizures are like battery fires and unicorns. Everybody knows they exist, but nobody has ever seen one, so no... we don't know what police do when they want to find out if bike is legal or not

Yes we do. I've seen videos of them doing it. One bike was totally illegal and had an independent throttle, but when the policeman operated the throttle with the wheel in the air, the motor cut at 15 mph, so he let it go.

 

[Az.]

Yes we do. I've seen videos of them doing it. One bike was totally illegal and had an independent throttle, but when the policeman operated the throttle with the wheel in the air, the motor cut at 15 mph, so he let it go.

I am guessing it is a lottery and there is no standard procedure.
I wonder what would they do with my bike. It has no throttle and no speed sensor

 

[chris_n]

If they are going to get serious they will do what they do over here. The police have access to a small portable dynamometer that is mainly used to identify tuned Mopeds but has been used to identify dongled ebikes too. I don't think it is actually calibrated for power but provides enough resistance to prevent the over speed issues that some on here have identified. I'm sure no one is interested in borderline issues so something doing 17mph won't be a problem but something doing 20 plus will be.

 

[thelarkbox]

If they are going to get serious they will do what they do over here. The police have access to a small portable dynamometer that is mainly used to identify tuned Mopeds but has been used to identify dangled ebikes too. I don't think it is actually calibrated for power but provides enough resistance to prevent the over speed issues that some on here have identified. I'm sure no one is interested in borderline issues so something doing 17mph won't be a problem but something doing 20 plus will be.

Unfortunately its way more likely that police will make a big song and dance about public policing early one morning in the city centres stopping commuters handing out leaflets and inspecting all the insured cared for bikes while all the food delivery bods are fast asleep after a late night delivering.

By the way the leaflets handed out will include another interpretation of the regs or mis quote of them.

Meanwhile bikes with the slightest issue such as a missing reflector will get loaded on trucks for press photo ops, requiring the owners to jump through hoops to retrieve them.

Not that im at all pessimistic about such things.. But they kind-a have a track record..


Btw the imagery of a 'Dangled Ebike' involving some sort of truck nuts.. is hard to shake.. thats my phrase for the day for sure.. i wonder how many conversations i can include it in without raising questions or an eyebrow??

 

[Ghost1951]

No one need worry if their bike is set up properly. Both of mine are, although one of mine has only recently been legalised. When I bought it it had a full speed throttle and would go to about 20 miles an hour, but I bought a programming lead and fixed it. The throttle was taken off.

Even if a bike is not exactly correct, there is about zero probability of anyone ever bothering a grumpy, grey haired git, pedalling along around here. The hooligans are easily spotted whizzing along pavements and roads on Franken-bikes, with their legs not moving.

 

[Az.]

Even if a bike is not exactly correct, there is about zero probability of anyone ever bothering a grumpy, grey haired git, pedalling along around here. The hooligans are easily spotted whizzing along pavements and roads on Franken-bikes, with their legs not moving.

Don't be so sure. If it was me working in police, you would be my primary target. With greater than zero chance of stopping you and relatively low risk of my injury during the chase. For sure I wouldn't want to mess up with local gang on Surrons.

 

[StuartsProjects]

Unfortunately the (probably) illegal use of eBikes by Delivery riders is very visible to the public.

Every time I go out on my bike I will see plenty of Delivery riders, no pedaling and throttle only and going way faster than 15.5mph. And self converted bikes apparently held together by gaffa tape is a common site too.

So to the average public this (probably) illegal use of eBikes, and speeding in particular, seems to be the norm, not policed and then too many that would make it acceptable. The your 'unlikely to be stopped' or 'they wont bother you' belief that you can see repeated on Internet forums does not help either.

The excessive speed is probably the most visible breach of the rules, but unfortunately there does seem to be significant numbers of eBike riders that apparently 'need' just a 'little' extra speed and seemingly justify the law breaking on the basis that they are of course careful. And so easy to get advice on how to de-restrict a bike to go faster than 15.5mph.

 

[saneagle]

Unfortunately the (probably) illegal use of eBikes by Delivery riders is very visible to the public.

Every time I go out on my bike I will see plenty of Delivery riders, no pedaling and throttle only and going way faster than 15.5mph. And self converted bikes apparently held together by gaffa tape is a common site too.

So to the average public this (probably) illegal use of eBikes, and speeding in particular, seems to be the norm, not policed and then too many that would make it acceptable. The your 'unlikely to be stopped' or 'they wont bother you' belief that you can see repeated on Internet forums does not help either.

The excessive speed is probably the most visible breach of the rules, but unfortunately there does seem to be significant numbers of eBike riders that apparently 'need' just a 'little' extra speed and seemingly justify the law breaking on the basis that they are of course careful. And so easy to get advice on how to de-restrict a bike to go faster than 15.5mph.

I'm pretty sure that the police have been told to keep away from ebikes, where possible. In the publicised seizures, they seized mostly bikes with mechanical defects, like defective brakes. The problem now is the risk to life by the bikes catching fire, which is putting pressure on authorities to do something, but they haven't figured out what to do yet. My thinking is that there's no point in have rules, when people are breaking them and nobody does anything about it. You should either change the rules or make sure there are consequences of breaking them, otherwise you have disorder. Anybody who's taught schoolkids will know about that, though it's the same for any type of management.

 

[flecc]

I am guessing it is a lottery and there is no standard procedure.

The lottery depends on who the police officer is. I suspect most are like my friend of over 20 years who for the last ten years has been a Met police officer. When he knows what his job is he does it diligently, but with ridiculously over complicated regulations like the assisted bicycle and Covid ones, he simply says "Nothing to do with me" and ignores the impossible to understand issue.
.

 

[thelarkbox]

Just about the only constant aspect of every tv and movie cop drama is the reliance on delivered food. Relevant?
How would Nigel 'I didnt start a riot, honest guv' farage put it, oh yes, Im only asking the question..?