E-bike controller wiring

[semiroundel]

Hi all, first post here, so please help if you can as I'm totally lost.
I'm an electrician and plumber but not an electronics man, so the following I find a bit puzzling.
I bought an Alfawise X1 E-bike a year ago that went round the block once and then it refused to run, it's a 36v 10.4ah battery (showing 41v static) it uses a X863-AA005 controller and I would happily swap that out, but the wiring colours and number of wires on each plug differ from other units available.
The hall sensor seems to have the same colours albeit in a different configuration, but the other plugs don't seem to coincide with any others I've seen on you tube or scouring the net.
Should I post a picture here? I could stand a fighting chance if I knew what went where.
Thanks in advance.

 

[vfr400]

Numbers and codes don't mean anything. show us what you have.

 

[semiroundel]

Sorry,of course, here it is

 

[semiroundel]

Sorry it's not better detail, my son borrowed my card reader and my camera, and so I had to take photo with my tablet, urghh.
I've identified the hall plug, of course, battery terminals, brushless motor bullets, and I think the lcd display is the plug above the hall with the red-blue-black-green and yellow wires (left to right).

 

[semiroundel]

In case it doesn't show well on the photo, the plug under the hall has blue-orange-green and black, and under that is what I think is the PAS plug (don't know even what that stands for) and that has black-red and yellow wires.

 

[semiroundel]

What's puzzling me the most is that other controllers I've seen when I patch in the model number of this one have 3 wires on throttle and PAS. The two plugs that don't seem to tally are the PAS (assuming that these people have wired the plug black-red and yellow) and the throttle because it has 4 cables and the colours don't correspond at all.
If it helps, I could dissamble the unit and photograph the inside so as to show where the relevant cables go

 

[wheeliepete]

If your throttle has a battery meter of some kind it would explain the 4th wire.

 

[semiroundel]

If your throttle has a battery meter of some kind it would explain the 4th wire.

yes it does.
So what I need is to replace like for like.
So far however, I've not been able to find a like unit, therefore I'd need to know what colours are what as they currently don't match all the units I've seen online.
I take it then, that the 4 cable plug is the throttle, and the 3 cable is the PAS, whatever that means. But still the colours don't coincide.
Thanks for the info thus far.
If it helps, being a model flyer, I could rig up a speed controller separately to check the motor, but of course the hall sensor wouldn't be connected if I did that.

 

[Nealh]

PAS colours don't need to be the same, you tell us the three PAS sensor colours and we will tell you what they are. The controller PAS connection should be Black/Gnd , Red/5v & Yellow/Sig you can double check by probing between Gnd & 5v to see about 5v.

The four wire throttle you can do the same Black/Gnd & Red/5v probe them to check for voltage, Green should be signal and Blue the throttle display voltage.

 

[vfr400]

That looks very standard as a normal Chinese controller. They all work the same. All throttles work the same, so do all PASs.

You can use a meter to check which of your 4 throttle connector wires works the indicator lights either by checking continuity to the red battery wire or by plugging in to the battery and control panel, switch on and check the voltage.

You need to show the control panel and more detail of the wires on the connector if you want an explanation about them.

Brake connectors (purple and black) are for simple switches. When the switch is on, the controller cuts the power.

Black and red is probably battery voltage for lights or anything else. You can confirm that with a meter.

 

[semiroundel]

Thanks for your input chaps, luckily when wiring programmers in the heating sector, I would take before photos to see where cables went, and did the same here.
The PAS plug has: black, red, yellow (from the controller) going to: black, red, green respectively, on the bike's harness. The cable/plug that I suspect is the throttle cable has: black, green, red, blue (from the controller) going to: black, blue, red, yellow respectively on the bike's harness.
One thing that I also noticed was that the front light has never come on at all.
I will endeavour to get some detailed pics of the display and start testing out continuity where I can.
I am going away on business shortly so may be away a few weeks, but on my return, I will resume to get this done.
The story so far: I bought the ebike from Gearb*st about a year ago, like I said, from almost day one it stopped working. Gearb*st insisted I had to ship it to Spain to get a refund, not easy when the battery is over 220 watt hours. They have made it difficult all the way to get it back to them, so in the end I resolved to keep it but get it working.
It's effectively a brand new bike, so part of me says it's something simple.
When repairing boilers, there's so many that cite the PCB as being the fault, but invariably it isn't, mostly a thermistor going out of cal or a cable working loose, which makes me suspect that it's something so obvious that I've looked past it. It may even be the display. Gearb*st did ask me to change somer parameters, including moving the terminal voltage from 48v to 36v in the menu, which I did but to no avail.
The manual for the display is incomprehensible to me, but those that understand how these work generally may be able to fathom it (again the heating programmers analogy comes to mind, I can programme virtually all of them without a problem) whereas the customers tend to leave them where I set them as they are unfamiliar with the parlance used in the manuals..

 

[vfr400]

The manual won't tell you anything useful.
Here's a basic structure for checking an Ebike after connecting everything up and switching on.

1. Measure the voltage at controller's battery connector. Obviously should be battery voltage.
2. Measure the voltage on the 5v rail. You can get that on any of the reds going to throttle, PAS or motor halls.
3. Check throttle signal wire. Should give about 1v to 4v when you twist the throttle.
4. Check that the PAS is pulsing. measure the PAS signal wire while turning the pedals slowly. Should pulse 5v on and off every time a magnet passes the sensor.
5. Check the motor hall signal wires (blue green and yellow). They should each pulse with 5v going on and off as you rotate the wheel BACKWARDS.

 

[semiroundel]

The manual won't tell you anything useful.
Here's a basic structure for checking an Ebike after connecting everything up and switching on.

1. Measure the voltage at controller's battery connector. Obviously should be battery voltage.
2. Measure the voltage on the 5v rail. You can get that on any of the reds going to throttle, PAS or motor halls.
3. Check throttle signal wire. Should give about 1v to 4v when you twist the throttle.
4. Check that the PAS is pulsing. measure the PAS signal wire while turning the pedals slowly. Should pulse 5v on and off every time a magnet passes the sensor.
5. Check the motor hall signal wires (blue green and yellow). They should each pulse with 5v going on and off as you rotate the wheel BACKWARDS.

Many thanks for that info. I can certainly get onto those.
I take it to carry out these checks everything needs to be connected as normal and that I'm checking for these 5v pulses against the black wire (negative)?
Also, given that the throttle cable has 4 wires (if I've selected the correct one as being the throttle cable), how do I figure out which is the signal wire?
There are two sets of cables that have four coloured cables together, one has a socket on it, the other has a spigot/plug, given that I can not probably disassemble the display, I'll first need to identify which is the display, and which the throttle.

 

[vfr400]

For a throttle with battery LEDs, the wires are red 5v, black ground, throttle signal and battery voltage. Measuring from ground when switched on, you'll measure 5v, 0v, 1.2v and 40v. When not connected, the signal wire will be 0v.

A 4-wire display has battery level, switched battery level, signal wire and ground. When disconnected, you will measure 40v, 0v, 0v, 0v.

The difference is the 5v wire to power the throttle.

 

[semiroundel]

For a throttle with battery LEDs, the wires are red 5v, black ground, throttle signal and battery voltage. Measuring from ground when switched on, you'll measure 5v, 0v, 1.2v and 40v. When not connected, the signal wire will be 0v.

A 4-wire display has battery level, switched battery level, signal wire and ground. When disconnected, you will measure 40v, 0v, 0v, 0v.

The difference is the 5v wire to power the throttle.

Thanks for that prompt reply. My throttle doesn't have any LED's, it's the display that shows the voltage.
I can see I'll have to get a photo of the display to help here.
As I disassembled the controller, I could photograph that internals to see if it helps?

 

[semiroundel]

I've been doing a bit more digging.
Back at the garage, I reconnected everything and got the following code: E:07. Along with the motor symbol in the top right corner of the display, they both say motor failure in the manual.
As you can see in pics, it's not a strung wheel, and haven't been able to identify the motor model.
I suppose the next step is to check the brake inhibitors on brake levers first, but would that give me motor failure on display? I think not.

 

[vfr400]

Did you do the tests I suggested above?
Why don't you provide some proper photos of what you have?
You're not helping us to help you. Most of what's been written above was a complete waste of time because everybody guessed wrongly what you have.

 

[semiroundel]

Did you do the tests I suggested above?

I've not had time until recently to go to the garage where it's stored.

Why don't you provide some proper photos of what you have?

I asked if a photo of the controller internals would be helpful-no reply, not even: no, but a photo of....would be good
So perhaps you could tell me what would be a good photo to help diagnose?

You're not helping us to help you. Most of what's been written above was a complete waste of time because everybody guessed wrongly what you have.

Everybody? Who? A waste of time? Not at all. wheeliepete and nealh had provided good info that was non-specific.

I do have photos of the designation as far as I've been able to work out of the cables exiting the controller, but the E07 has only just appeared, the minute motor symbol may have been there before but as I only need glasses for reading, I wouldn't have seen it before

 

[semiroundel]

The designation of cables as far as I can tell from investigation

 

[semiroundel]

fuller view of rear