Drunk e-scooter rider on Cheltenham hen do banned from driving after weaving in and out of traffic

[soundwave]

E-scooter rider fined for drunken weaving in traffic after hen do

Paige Burnley admitted she did wrong when taxis failed to show up but argued she did not know the rules for e-scooters

www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk

 

[Scorpio]

I don't own an E-scooter and have no plans to get one but I thought they were in the same class as legal 250w E-bikes, ie no licence or insurance required, no drink-drive limits. I'm surprised the courts see it differently and banned the rider for 18 months.

To avoid confusion, I'm not defending her decision to ride home in the dark after having a few drinks...

Edit: looking at the photos, it's a "skateboard" style E-scooter, not something that looks like a moped https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Zwings+E-Scooter&t=brave&iax=images&ia=images

 

[PC2017]

no drink-drive limits

Hows life man?

Not read yet - but I always assumed one could be fined and or prosecuted for drunk in charge of any vehicle. I would not risk more than a few bevies spaced over a few hours before locking up the bike and hailing a taxi, even less now I lost 20/20 vision and have T1D

 

[Nealh]

Yep if one had a licence and got nicked on a push bike then one could also still get a driving ban.

 

[guerney]

They'll be self-driving next to which cyclists wil be invisible I can't balance on a bike after a few Guinnesseses, damned eyes aren't as good as they were, so I wouldn't even try these days. Youth is wasted on the young She's lucky she wasn't squished instead of prosecuted.

 

[georgehenry]

flecc will probably know definitively, but I have always thought that being drunk on a bicycle did not effect your driving licence.

Would that be different on a legal ebike?

This popped up on google, so may not be accurate.

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/cycling-drunk-crime-uk-law-fine-how-much-punishment-284896

 

[Andy-Mat]

flecc will probably know definitively, but I have always thought that being drunk on a bicycle did not effect your driving licence.

Would that be different on a legal ebike?

This popped up on google, so may not be accurate.

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/cycling-drunk-crime-uk-law-fine-how-much-punishment-284896

Interesting link.
Here in Germany, there is a slightly higher alcohol limit (assuming no recent law changes) for bike riding, but if you exceed that, or cause an accident with motorised vehicles, your driving license may be suspended, just as if you got behind the wheel of a car!!!
regards
Andy

 

[Scorpio]

flecc will probably know definitively, but I have always thought that being drunk on a bicycle did not effect your driving licence.

This popped up on google, so may not be accurate.
https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/cycling-drunk-crime-uk-law-fine-how-much-punishment-284896

Thanks @georgehenry it's an interesting article that covers all the questions I had. A shame all the answers are vague maybe / could / might...

Extract from the article :
“it is true that you can’t have your driving licence endorsed with penalty points because of an offence committed on a bicycle” then adds
“it’s often overlooked that the court does have a general power under the Power of Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act 2000 to disqualify anyone from driving, without imposing penalty points, for any offence, including a cycling offence.”

All as clear as mud

@PC2017 Good to hear from you. Life here is good thanks. The bike is running well with no faults or niggles, it's sunbathing weather most days, the only thing I'm waiting for is for the sea to warm up so I can go swimming when I ride there

 

[PC2017]

it's sunbathing weather most days, the only thing I'm waiting for is for the sea to warm up so I can go swimming

Jealous

 

[sjpt]

I don't own an E-scooter and have no plans to get one but I thought they were in the same class as legal 250w E-bikes, ie no licence or insurance required, no drink-drive limits. I'm surprised the courts see it differently and banned the rider for 18 months.

Typically escooter means the skateboard style, and it is does not qualify for the minimal rules (same as a bike) of a pedalec, except for specific hire trials (where it has 350w limit). Looks like that might change in a week or so.

A motor scooter shaped escooter does come under the same pedalec rules as other ebikes; this includes the 'no assistance unless pedalling' rule which actually means most don't qualify.

 

[guerney]

Jealous

A mate is in Bali, I'm even more jealous

 

[guerney]

Typically escooter means the skateboard style, and it is does not qualify for the minimal rules (same as a bike) of a pedalec, except for specific hire trials (where it has 350w limit). Looks like that might change in a week or so.

A motor scooter shaped escooter does come under the same pedalec rules as other ebikes; this includes the 'no assistance unless pedalling' rule which actually means most don't qualify.

Lets hope Grant Schwepps doesn't overfizz reforming pedelec law at the same time

 

[flecc]

I don't own an E-scooter and have no plans to get one but I thought they were in the same class as legal 250w E-bikes, ie no licence or insurance required, no drink-drive limits. I'm surprised the courts see it differently and banned the rider for 18 months.

These e-scooters are motor vehicles in law so all the motor vehicle laws apply, at present at least.

Legal Pedelecs are bicycles in law, so no motor vehicle laws apply.
.

 

[StuartsProjects]

Lets hope Grant Schwepps doesn't overfizz reforming pedelec law at the same time

Whilst there may be some restictions or licensing that will be part of the mitigation in making eScooters legal it could lead ebikes getting the same treatment.

And if you can use a throttle on an eScooter, should not the same apply to an eBike ?

Whatever restrictions are imposed, unless there are legal controls over exactly what may be sold or imported, then I suspect power limits etc will just be ignored by most.

A recent example of how poorly 'voluntary' regulation is observed in the UK to do with roads occured recently in my area. Now when out out driving (urban area) there are often long queues of vehicles behind me, but none in front of me. Its now a 20mph speed limit everywhere and the observance rate on clear roads is close to nobody.

 

[guerney]

Whilst there may be some restictions or licensing that will be part of the mitigation in making eScooters legal it could lead ebikes getting the same treatment.

And if you can use a throttle on an eScooter, should not the same apply to an eBike ?

Whatever restrictions are imposed, unless there are legal controls over exactly what may be sold or imported, then I suspect power limits etc will just be ignored by most.

A recent example of how poorly 'voluntary' regulation is observed in the UK to do with roads occured recently in my area. Now when out out driving (urban area) there are often long queues of vehicles behind me, but none in front of me. Its now a 20mph speed limit everywhere and the observance rate on clear roads is close to nobody.

The eBike throttle restriction is irrational.

If the speed limit within cities and towns was lowered to 20mph, and the pedelec speed limit increased to 20mph, pedelecers riding middle lane with a "SLOW TO 20mph!!!"sign on their rear racks, could be paid per mile from the Civil Service budget. After being overtaken, I'd quite like a flashing blue light and the power to issue drivers with on the spot fines. And a taser

 

[StuartsProjects]

If the speed limit within cities and towns was lowered to 20mph

Thats the plan for Wales.

There are several 'trials' going on in Wales, but the plan is for the default speed limit for urban areas in the whole of Wales to be 20mph sometime next year.

 

[flecc]

if you can use a throttle on an eScooter, should not the same apply to an eBike ?

No, the difference I've explained in my previous post number 13, that e-scooters are motor vehicles with all that implies in law. Legal pedelecs are classed as bicycles so not subject to motor vehicle laws.

This is all about the fact that pedelecs only have assist power and how that power is applied. The authorities desire very long ago that cycling should be encouraged more widely led to the realisation that some need assistance to do so, due to terrain variation, age etc.

So to achieve that without turning the bicycle into a form of motorcycle, the allowance of assist power had to be as close to normal cycling as possible. That meant the bicycle, even with assist power, can only be propelled by pedalling (so no fully acting throttle), the amount of assist power is limited to what humans are capable of and the powered speed be limited to within that of normal unassisted utility cycling.

The usual objection raised is to the assist speed limit, but this is almost uniquely a British objection due to the weird modern British habit since the 1980s of cycling at 20 mph or more like Tour de France wannabees. It never used to be this way. In the decades like the 1950s and before when cycling in Britain was so widespread that half the country cycled, it was utility cycling and they did it sitting upright and ambling along at typically around 10 mph. I know, I was there and in the trade. The rest of the world still cycles that way.

I've previously explained why British cycling became so different recently, it's a long story.

A recent example of how poorly 'voluntary' regulation is observed in the UK to do with roads occured recently in my area. Now when out out driving (urban area) there are often long queues of vehicles behind me, but none in front of me. Its now a 20mph speed limit everywhere and the observance rate on clear roads is close to nobody.

Equally my entire borough has long been 20 limited with only the main through roads at 30 limit.

What I've noticed though is that everyone observes the limits and always have done, but all only in a relative fashion. In the days when it was all 30 limited, most drove at nearer to 40mph and still do on the remaining 30 limit roads.

But on the majority of 20 limit roads they now drive at near to 30.

I think this is just human nature. We mostly find limits of any kind irksome so we push against them as far as we can get away with it, even our routine police patrols do exactly the same.

However, it doesn't really matter, since what the authorities desired has been achieved, almost all our motor traffic is now running 10 mph slower than they used to, so there's a genuine increase in safety. I bet it's similar where you are.
.

 

[StuartsProjects]

However, it doesn't really matter, since what the authorities desired has been achieved, almost all our motor traffic is now running 10 mph slower than they used to, so there's a genuine increase in safety. I bet it's similar where you are.

You cannot really tell, when driving, what the others are doing all you see when observing the limit is vehicles in front of you dissapearing into the distance.

As a cyclist or pedestrian, sppeds of vehicles seem much the same to me and very definetly they have not slowed down by 10mph. Maybe a pile of prosecutions might improve things.

 

[flecc]

You cannot really tell, when driving, what the others are doing all you see when observing the limit is vehicles in front of you dissapearing into the distance.

As a cyclist or pedestrian, sppeds of vehicles seem much the same to me and very definetly they have not slowed down by 10mph. Maybe a pile of prosecutions might improve things.

You mentioned it was a trial scheme, ours is a permanent one a few years old, so maybe better adapted to over time.

As these 20 limits spread maybe everyone will observe them better, but I very much doubt we'll ever see traffic staying strictly at 20 mph. Being so slow is unnecessary and drivers will never conform exactly to it. As I mentioned, even the police on routine patrols dont accept it.
.

 

[guerney]

Jealous