drinking and cycling

[eddieo]

a bit of a debate at the moment on motorhome forum I use regards the issue of e biking and drinking. When away in Europe I would not dream of drink driving as limits less. But we do cycle out, stop for lunch and have drinks with a meal. So probably strictly over the limit I guess for the return ride...

I have never thought of it as an issue. surely no different then a pedestrian or a normal cyclist.....Anyone can be done for being drunk!

This article seems to say different, and if in charge of a propelled vehicle, in this case an e bike you can be prosecuted...

what do you think?

Man convicted of being drunk in charge of an e-bike | UK Cycle Rules - information on cycling law in England and Wales

 

[jazper53]

Its looks even if you are pushing the bike home, you can get done, as you are in charge of a mechanical propelled vehicle

 

[Mussels]

The article seems vague about how an ebike is legally defined, the author made that clear despite what appears a good effort to find a definitive answer. I think it highlights a general problem where the police and courts will interpret the law as they see fit, not really their fault but a problem with such vague descriptions.

The part I find a problem is his findings that an ebike is neither a motor vehicle or a pushbike when it comes to working out which laws to obey. Now in reference to having a drink you may say 'tough, he shouldn't have been drunk' (I expect he was pretty ****ed to attract police attention) but what about speeding?

 

[Mussels]

I never realised the forum was censored.
**** b****cks ****.

Edit: Looks like it's only sensored for American profanities, I edited the middle one myself.

 

[yselmike]

when I got whacked by a scooter in Amsterdam the order was..I.D.....blow into this....Ambulance.
I had not had a drink.

 

[flecc]

This has cropped up before, by having the pedals off he was in charge of a motor vehicle since it no longer complied with the EAPC regulations. That made the drunk in charge prosecution correct, and he could additionally have been charged with a variety of motoring offences in addition.

This emphasises how important it is to have an e-bike legal in every respect in order to avoid prosecution for unexpected offences. Illegal e-bikes really are a Pandora's Box of possible evils.

 

[neptune]

It would be interesting to know if the ebike in question had a throttle , or was pedelec only. If the latter then it was not capable of being ridden, either by pedal power or motor power. That would not stop him being "in charge of a motor vehicle" in law. Just suppose you are riding your ebike down the road, and the left pedal, or pedal and crank falls off. It is run over by a car behind you, and flies over the hedge into the canal. Suddenly you are riding an illegal motorcycle.
As regards drinking , my habits are modest. A couple of years ago I had a blood test . On seeing the results, my Doctor said "you must really do something about your heavy drinking". I pointed out that in the last 12 months I had drunk 4 cans of Asda smart price bitter. Four cans for£1, 2.1% alcohol.

 

[hech]

Speaking perhaps for those with more exhuberant habits, I find the the whole thing both disquieting and offensive.
Surely the function of law is to enable a society to coexist without harm. Statute law has become so obsessed with it's own importance that it has lost one of the main requirements of law which is comprehensibility. On sites like this we still debate whether we are riding bikes or motor vehicles let alone whether one is 'fit' or 'drunk' to do so. I would rather see magistrates imposing common sense law and convict only when there is a real need for it.
I sympathise with the guy who took his pedals off and pushed his bike home because he considered this to be the safest and least offensive way to do so. Personally I would have given them a run for their money.

 

[tillson]

Its dead easy:

Legal ebike (as defined) = pedal cycle legislation.

Ilegal ebike (not complying with above) = Same law / penalties as with motor vehicles.

 

[Mussels]

Its dead easy:

Legal ebike (as defined) = pedal cycle legislation.

Ilegal ebike (not complying with above) = Same law / penalties as with motor vehicles.

That's not what he said in the article, a legal ebike is not the same as a pushbike. I don't know if it's right or not but if we can't work it out then a magistrate hasn't really got a hope.

 

[amigafan2003]

what do you think?

I think that even though it's entriely legal to put your willy in a mangle, you'd be daft to actually do it.

Same with drink cycling.

 

[neptune]

@Hech. The problem is that common sense is anything but common. One man`s common sense is another man`s garbage. So if the beak convicts you, that is common sense. Of course if he convicts me, that is definitely garbage. If law was simple, then we would have poor lawyers, which is an oxymoron in itself.If taxation was simple we would have poor accountants, heaven forfend. If building regulations were simple, building inspectors would be on the dole.
I was once told that in Saudi Arabia, they only have one building regulation. If you build something, and it falls down and kills someone, they chop your head off.Simples!
@Amagafan. If you ain`t tried it, don`t knock it.

 

[eddieo]

when we are away, nothing nicer then cycling through olive groves etc.... come across a nice restaurant have a leisurely lunch, with an aperitif an share a bottle of wine (2 or 3 glasses each depending on size of glasses) Then nice ride back...

while drink driving laws tougher in Europe, I always thought I would be OK as long as not legless....

 

[Eaglerider]

If you ain`t tried it, don`t knock it.

Goodness me Neptune, have you really put your willy in the mangle??

 

[neptune]

@Eaglerider. I guess its a bit like the guy who used to bang his head up the wall because it felt great when he stopped...

 

[tillson]

That's not what he said in the article, a legal ebike is not the same as a pushbike. I don't know if it's right or not but if we can't work it out then a magistrate hasn't really got a hope.

Correct me if I am wrong, I don't have time to look up the exact wording, but I always thought that if your ebike fits the legal definition, power, weight, speed, etcetera, etcetera, then when it comes to legislation, it is classed as a pedal cycle and only the penalties applicable to pedal cycles can be passed down. If you step outside the definition by, for example, increasing the bikes power beyond the prescribed limit, then it becomes something other than a pedal cycle. A mechanically propelled vehicle would be my guess. If you are using a mechanically propelled vehicle, by virtue of the fact that you have modified your ebike, then you have exposed yourself to a whole new set of legislation which has much more severe penalties. Loss of driving licence, higher fines and even prison.

Hence my simple view:

Bike = Pedal Cycle law

Ilegal ebike= motor vehicle law.

 

[Eaglerider]

Seriosuly though, I must admit that a major reason for my original interest in E-Bikes was to visit the pub for a couple of swift ones. Whilst a normal bike can do the journey to my local, heavy pedalling up a 2 mile long hill to get home just did not appeal. On an E-Bike, it's no trouble at all.

To have a drink with one's colleagues in the pub is a great pleasure, and I believe a traditionally British activity. I certainly will not drink, and drive a car, at any time. Whilst I would not advocate attempting Hyde Park Corner whilst completely plastered on any bike, the ability to make a judgement for myself as to how much I drink before riding is a significant freedom, and I believe one that I am able to make a reasonable judgement about, despite a drink.

Mostly, I have 2 or 3 pints and that's enough, although there has been the odd exception!!!

After 38 years riding motorcycles, without incident (so far) I believe that I am able to make a judgement that will keep me and others safe, and to lose the option to go to the pub would be a very great loss.

Riding after a few drinkies, in moderation, is an acceptable risk to my mind. After all, in so many activities involving powered travel, the price of safety is, eternal vigilance, whatever your state of mind. What's more, I will not subscribe to the government's belief that all of society must adhere to a type of conformist mediocrity, where any behaviour beyond "the norm" mut be regulated from existence, and thus have a rather boring life!!

 

[Mussels]

Correct me if I am wrong, I don't have time to look up the exact wording, but I always thought that if your ebike fits the legal definition, power, weight, speed, etcetera, etcetera, then when it comes to legislation, it is classed as a pedal cycle and only the penalties applicable to pedal cycles can be passed down. If you step outside the definition by, for example, increasing the bikes power beyond the prescribed limit, then it becomes something other than a pedal cycle. A mechanically propelled vehicle would be my guess. If you are using a mechanically propelled vehicle, by virtue of the fact that you have modified your ebike, then you have exposed yourself to a whole new set of legislation which has much more severe penalties. Loss of driving licence, higher fines and even prison.

Hence my simple view:

Bike = Pedal Cycle law

Ilegal ebike= motor vehicle law.

That's how you and I interpret it but the problem is that it can easily be interpreted other ways.

Drink-riding – the basics I’ve posted before about riding while drunk. As I said then, if you ride a normal bike, there are two offences you might commit: riding while unfit(if you were caught while actually on the bike) or being drunk in charge(an offence you can only commit if you were not riding at the time). (RTA s. 30; LA 1872 s. 12; RTOA s. 5)
As I said then, the rules on drinking and e-bikes are slightly different.
E-bikes (when they comply with the statutory rules) seem to be mechanically propelled vehicles under the Road Traffic Acts. So a drunken e-bike rider might commit the offence of driving a mechanically propelled vehicle while unfit to drive through drink or drugs.
Or, if you’re caught drunk with your e-bike but not actually riding it, you might commit the offence of being in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle while unfit. (RTA ss. 4(1), 4(2)).

Until you get caught doing something the police don't like and end up in court you'll never know how it will be interpreted. And it's not like the police or magistrates always always basic cycling laws right.

 

[GaRRy]

Hence my simple view:

Bike = Pedal Cycle law

Ilegal ebike= motor vehicle law.

you really need to read the article closely. The author definately implies the rules are not exactly the same.

eg breathaliser can refuse out right to take one on normal bike under any circumstances.
but on a e-bike while can legally refuse at side of road if they take you to the staition you must provide one if requested or can be charged with failing to provide a specimin

he also states there are laws that cover a mechanically propelled vehicle as opposed to a motorised vehicle which a e-bike could fall under.

 

[eddieo]

So if an e bike complies with EPAC regs it is not a mechanically propelled vehicle...Is this correct?