No it is a mechanicall propelled vehcle its just not a motor vehicle !!!
confusing or what ?
Last edited:
drinking and cycling
- Thread starter eddieo
- Start date
confusing or what ?
A human being could be construed to be a machine, albeit an organically based one. Electricity is also used by one's legs whilst pedalling, so in that sense, we are all mechanically propelled in one way or another. Interpretation of the law is always a matter of perspective as viewed by the law enforcers.
That is correct, the UK EAPC regulations and the EU's 2002/24/EC type regulations both in different ways specify that conforming to e-bike criteria exempts one from motor vehicle construction and use law.
That leaves only bicycle law applicable to legal e-bikes and their riders. They aren't even subject to UK speed limits, those being motor vehicle law.
I must confess to not having read the article recently, but I have read it a little while ago.
The thread seems to be getting awfully confusing:
When I use the term ebike, I mean a legal one which fits the definition.
1) An ebike is just the same as an un-powered bicycle in terms of the law. There is specific legislation which covers riding one whilst ****ed and it is not the same legislation as that for a car. You can't be required to give a breath sample and you can't lose your driving licence even if you run the Queen over on a zebra crossing whilst drunk, doing 40 in a 30 limit and using a mobile telephone all at the same time. The less severe pedal cycle legislation is all that could be applied. This is ONLY if your bike is either un-powered or a legal ebike.
2) If you modify you bike outside of the legislation IT IS NO LONGER AN EBIKE. It then becomes a mechanically propelled vehicle. I know it was propelled, "mechanically" in (1) above, but this is law, not mechanical engineering. There is specific legislation for mechanically propelled vehicles which closely follows that of motor vehicles. However, one difference being that I don't think that you can be required to provide a roadside breath test if using a mechanically propelled vehicle, where as you can if using a motor vehicle. However, the constable will just arrest you on suspicion of driving / using / being in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle whilst unfit through drink or drugs. You can then be required to produce a breath specimen at the police station.
The penalties for (2) include loss of driving licence, big fines, prison. Where as (1), go to the pub, have a drink or 10 and ride home. No one is really going to bother you unless you do something completely stupid. Even then, there isn't much at the disposal of the law to punish you with.
I guess the guy in the example at the start of the thread fell foul of the law because his bike had no pedals. It didn't fit the definition of an ebike, so it was classed as a mechanically propelled vehicle. Excuses about pedals falling off on the way home and being run over, or eaten by a stray dog are never going to work in a defence. They will be seen by the courts for what they are, nonsense.
Just as an aside, I think a motor vehicle is defined as any vehicle intended or adapted for use on a road. Something like a bulldozer doesn't fit that definition, but clearly we don't want drunks driving them around, so these sorts of things are thrown into the definition of a mechanically propelled vehicle along with illegal ebikes.
It might not suit everyone, but there has to be a line in the sand and our line in the sand is the current legal bike definition. It is quite a generous easement and one that I think is worth respecting. I'd like a bit more speed, a bit more power, but we haven't got it.
I don't really care what others do either. If you want a 1000 Watt 30 mph bike, fine. Just don't come on here boasting about it. Do what you feel you need to do and be prepared to take your medicine without whining if it all goes wrong.
So: Ebike = Can never lose your licence or have points added to it.
Ilegal Ebike = Exactly the same penalties as for using your car under the same circumstances.
Last edited:
No but it would appear from article that a cyclist on a ebike could as some of the offenses that apply to mechanical vehicles can have points applied to a license.
As I read the article it implies
There are laws for mechanical vehicles
Bicycles are exempt from these laws despite being mechanical vehicles
There are additonal laws for motorised vehicles
EAPC legal e-bikes are exempt from these laws despite being motorised vehicles (so cant be prosecuted for drink driving)
but the laws on mechanical vehicles still apply and some of those offences can effect your license.
Last edited:
No.
I understand from some unchecked sources that there has been the odd case of magistrates making such a mistake, uncorrected by the court clerk, but it should not happen and can be successfully appealed. A legal e-bike is not a motor vehicle in law, and the term mechanically propelled vehicle has no relevance. It is just a bicycle with assistance and only subject to UK and EU type and usage regulations for bicycles and electric assist bicycles.
Quite simply, do not take a two part driving licence to court and surrender it in such a case.
The article stated that a cyclist could not be made to do a breath test at the side of the road or in a police station. It also stated that the rider of an ebike could not be made to do a breath test at the side of the road but could be forced to take a blood alcohol test at a police station.
This demostrates that ebike law is not the same as pushbike law. Is he wrong?
I don't know and that's my point, is the law clear enough or is there scope for us to fall foul of the courts interpretation of what an ebike is?
This demostrates that ebike law is not the same as pushbike law. Is he wrong?
I don't know and that's my point, is the law clear enough or is there scope for us to fall foul of the courts interpretation of what an ebike is?
Probably worth reading these older articles as well
first states a ebike is classified slightly differently to a normal bike (towards bottom of article)
Can you ride when you've been drinking? | UK Cycle Rules - information on cycling law in England and Wales
second article states there are some offences you can loose your license / get penalty points for on a e-bike (again towards bottom)
Can you lose your driving licence for a cycling offence? | UK Cycle Rules - information on cycling law in England and Wales
first states a ebike is classified slightly differently to a normal bike (towards bottom of article)
Can you ride when you've been drinking? | UK Cycle Rules - information on cycling law in England and Wales
second article states there are some offences you can loose your license / get penalty points for on a e-bike (again towards bottom)
Can you lose your driving licence for a cycling offence? | UK Cycle Rules - information on cycling law in England and Wales
I'm certain he is wrong. Note his wording that an e-bike "seems to be a mechanically propelled vehicle", just his interpretation.
The terms mechanically propelled vehicle and motor vehicle are no really different in law, they are both motor vehicles. Motor vehicles are defined by type approval legislation which specifically excludes assisted bicycles conforming to the requirements for those. By implication therefore they are not motor vehicles and I think using an alternative term just to gain a conviction as in this case would be viewed in a dim light by a more senior court. The law exists to protect society, not to amass convictions, whatever a police officer's aims might be.
Of course there can be far more serious matters where any court may take a different view, but in a trivial case such as this an effect on a driving licence should not apply.
.
The terms mechanically propelled vehicle and motor vehicle are no really different in law, they are both motor vehicles. Motor vehicles are defined by type approval legislation which specifically excludes assisted bicycles conforming to the requirements for those. By implication therefore they are not motor vehicles and I think using an alternative term just to gain a conviction as in this case would be viewed in a dim light by a more senior court. The law exists to protect society, not to amass convictions, whatever a police officer's aims might be.
Of course there can be far more serious matters where any court may take a different view, but in a trivial case such as this an effect on a driving licence should not apply.
.
Last edited:
Heres hoping hes wrong. Just hope one of does not ever have to prove this the hard way.
Incidentally since 1994 Courts have been able to revoke your license for pretty much any reason not just for motoring offences.
Yes, that's true sadly, parliament regarding a licence as a privilege that can be forfeited for anti-social activities. Parliament was wrong of course, a licence is in truth a qualification earned, no different from a degree or A level. As such it can never in truth be removed since the fact of qualification still exists.
If parliament expressed the law sensibly and correctly, the law would prevent usage of a motor vehicle for a period by order, without any reference to a driving licence, and the latter should not even be called a licence but instead a driving certificate.
I have had brushes with the law on all kinds of bikes, both ebikes and pedal cycles. Not because I am a repeat offender, but because I use bikes at night in pursuit of my social life.
On most of these occasions alcohol was a factor. On only one occasion was I asked if I had Been drinking. I looked directly at my inquisitor and said. Yes I have. So what?
If I had been less assertive then no doubt a lecture would have ensued.
As it was, he changed the subject abruptly.
On most of these occasions alcohol was a factor. On only one occasion was I asked if I had Been drinking. I looked directly at my inquisitor and said. Yes I have. So what?
If I had been less assertive then no doubt a lecture would have ensued.
As it was, he changed the subject abruptly.
Exactly my position in such matters, being assertive, albeit polite, and showing that one is not prepared to put up with any nonsense. Police officers don't like difficult, educated and knowledgeable prospects for possible conviction, there's plenty of easier low resistance targets out there.
If you are riding an Ebike because you lost your license due to drinking and driving or you do not have a license how can it be revoked? The law is an ass.
As an aside a friend of mine (back in the 1970s) was riding his bike home after playing cricket and partaking in a heavy drinking session afterwards. He had stopped to buy sausage and chips and was eating them whilst he rode. He stopped at a red light, but forgot to put his foot down and fell over off his bike. Behind him was a police car. The officers got out of the car and helped him to his feet. He said " I have lost my sausage" He was very drunk! They put him in the car, the bike in the boot and drove him home. Leaving myself and 2 other friends amazed and a four mile walk home.
Heard about the chef who caught his willy in the dishwasher?
Manager walked in, fired her too.
Related Articles
-
MTF Enterprises announces acquisition of EMU Electric Bikes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Wisper 806T folding bike wins Which? ‘Best Buy’- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Sustrans calls for protected cycle lanes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Amazon launch their first UK e-cargo micromobility hub- Started by: Pedelecs
