Does size really matter?

[trex]

The point I tried to make in reply to the OP's question is that if you are unfit and live in a hilly area, Chinese bikes are a better choice because you don't have to pedal hard to go uphill, power delivery is dead easy with Chinese bikes.
That's with the benefit of hindsight.

Edit: provided you have a big fat motor.
It's also difficult to convey how you control small amount of power in pedelec mode with Chinese bikes, when you cycle leisurely on flat roads. The Lishui LSW947 controller is quite good at maintaining the slow rythm while many other controllers start and stop.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Nobody can ignore your posts Dave, they're sooooo long
WHAT WORRIES ME IS THAT YOU SAY THESE THINGS WITH SO MUCH CONVICTION THAT PEOPLE MAY ACTUALLY START TO BELIEVE YOU TOO.

John,I believe what you tell me so why do you not believe my postings,we are both professionals in this business. The problem with Trex is he makes claims for these bikes which is completely outside of their performance profile,customers then have unreal expectations of the performance and are disappointed when they ride them. If you read the postings by Skint it is a classic example.
As a professional......
Do you think a throttle makes these bikes better hill climbers?
Do you think that a throttle would be a good idea if you are unfit,but want to get fit?
Do you think that if you want a hill climbing bike you should ignore the German product and buy Chinese?
If Trex was an official representative of Woosh and declared as such or just an interested poster, but he sits as some kind of Messiah of the e-bike world as a customer when it suits him or as a promoter of Woosh when it suits him. A new customer to this forum must be so confused.
Trex dismisses every bike other than Woosh,that is so disrespectful to some beautiful bikes. I wouldn't mind if he ever rides these other bikes but he clearly has never ridden a KTM e-Panasonic bike and yet Trex claims that the Woosh with a throttle is so much more powerful for hill climbing than any German bike,that is just not true.
I sell Chinese bikes,I sell German bikes. The Chinese are all pretty much the same,they are as good as the assembler who screws them together,with a combination of BPM motor,light frame and good accessory selection it is possible to build a bike with raw power at a fair price ,what the Germans achieve is to link those parts together in a manner which has the same style as we expect from a motor car,but at a price.
What Kudos is trying to achieve is getting the Chinese to replicate that style at a Chinese price,we are not there yet,but getting closer. I have the advantage of previewing the next years offering from KTM,they are very exciting bikes and screwed together like an Audi.
I am honest about the performance and profile of a Kudos bike,why should customers not believe me.
I am sure that you are equally honest about the performance and profile of an Ezee bike,I would expect customers to believe you
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

The point I tried to make in reply to the OP's question is that if you are unfit and live in a hilly area, Chinese bikes are a better choice because you don't have to pedal hard to go uphill, power delivery is dead easy with Chinese bikes.
That's with the benefit of hindsight.

Edit: provided you have a big fat motor.
It's also difficult to convey how you control small amount of power in pedelec mode with Chinese bikes, when you cycle leisurely on flat roads. The Lishui LSW947 controller is quite good at maintaining the slow rythm while many other controllers start and stop.

Trex...any of the Panasonic hub drive bikes would suit a rider who wishes to ride a nice bike in a hilly area,not Chinese.

 

[EddiePJ]

In my very non professional capacity, I can only say that you shouldn't rely on your current commuting route to decide upon which battery size is best. Things/circumstances have a nasty habit of changing when least expected. I'd suggest, establishing a budget price for bike purchase, research bikes within this, including things such as battery options, dealer location and warranty. Then start a thread to try to slim any list down, and try as many bikes as you can. What might suit one person, doesn't always suit another.

 

[trex]

John,I believe what you tell me so why do you not believe my postings,we are both professionals in this business. The problem with Trex is he makes claims for these bikes which is completely outside of their performance profile,customers then have unreal expectations of the performance and are disappointed when they ride them. If you read the postings by Skint it is a classic example.
As a professional......
Do you think a throttle makes these bikes better hill climbers?
Do you think that a throttle would be a good idea if you are unfit,but want to get fit?
Do you think that if you want a hill climbing bike you should ignore the German product and buy Chinese?
If Trex was an official representative of Woosh and declared as such or just an interested poster, but he sits as some kind of Messiah of the e-bike world as a customer when it suits him or as a promoter of Woosh when it suits him. A new customer to this forum must be so confused.
Trex dismisses every bike other than Woosh,that is so disrespectful to some beautiful bikes. I wouldn't mind if he ever rides these other bikes but he clearly has never ridden a KTM e-Panasonic bike and yet Trex claims that the Woosh with a throttle is so much more powerful for hill climbing than any German bike,that is just not true.
I sell Chinese bikes,I sell German bikes. The Chinese are all pretty much the same,they are as good as the assembler who screws them together,with a combination of BPM motor,light frame and good accessory selection it is possible to build a bike with raw power at a fair price ,what the Germans achieve is to link those parts together in a manner which has the same style as we expect from a motor car,but at a price.
What Kudos is trying to achieve is getting the Chinese to replicate that style at a Chinese price,we are not there yet,but getting closer. I have the advantage of previewing the next years offering from KTM,they are very exciting bikes and screwed together like an Audi.
I am honest about the performance and profile of a Kudos bike,why should customers not believe me.
I am sure that you are equally honest about the performance and profile of an Ezee bike,I would expect customers to believe you
KudosDave

if you can't remember the exact words then use copy and paste. Why oh why do you have to misquote me again?

'Trex dismisses every bike other than Woosh,that is so disrespectful to some beautiful bikes'

Where did I make such a statement?

'Trex claims that the Woosh with a throttle is so much more powerful for hill climbing than any German bike'

Where did I make such a statement?

You are obsessed with Woosh. Buy them out or ignore them.

 

[Kudoscycles]

No Trex, I have little care for Woosh,they are a cheap Chinese bike that sells on price on the internet,there are others before and there will be others again.
It's you Trex that I have had enough of,but you are connected to Woosh,you completely dominate this forum,with your ' I am always right,type attitude' ,but when pressed of evidence of your claims you deviate from the subject.
This thread is a classic example,where did you get your 900 per cent figure.
Still you will be able to demonstrate to all when you go to Redbridge and ride a bike against the Kalkhoff.
I assume you can ride a bike?
Dave

the 900% assist ratio that I gave earlier is to keep to the Bosch way of specifying assist ratio.
That means the motor will give 900% of the cyclist input.
When you read the European bikes' brochure, you see specified 'Turbo: 250%' that means the motor output is 250% * the cyclist input

Usually, assist ratios are not specified with Chinese bikes, only assist levels, 3 for cheap bikes, 5 for more expensive bikes. Also, most of them do not have torque sensor, the cyclist input cannot be measured accurately, only estimated, so the 900% is my estimate.

People buy expensive bikes because they are designed, not assembled from a menu of components like most Chinese bikes are (with the exception of a few premium brands like Ezee, Momentum), better built and usually have premium components like hydraulic shocks, hydraulic brakes, good rack, good grips, good propstands etc.

I have just read again that you have explained that the Woosh bike assists at 900 per cent of rider input. So how do you determine rider input. I normally consider that an average rider has 200 watts of power in their legs,so the Woosh bike delivers 1800 watts of power,is that what you are saying?
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

if you can't remember the exact words then use copy and paste. Why oh why do you have to misquote me again?

'Trex dismisses every bike other than Woosh,that is so disrespectful to some beautiful bikes'

Where did I make such a statement?

'Trex claims that the Woosh with a throttle is so much more powerful for hill climbing than any German bike'

Where did I make such a statement?

You are obsessed with Woosh. Buy them out or ignore them.

Read back through your own postings.

 

[musicbooks]

I'm completely lost

 

[Kudoscycles]

I'm completely lost

Music books....no you don't need a massive battery for your 6 mile commute,the common is 10 or 11 Ah,good for 30 miles with average rider input,average terrain. I ride an 8 Ah battery bike in very hilly area and always get 20 miles plus. If your bike has a throttle and you intend to use it with no rider input then you could be down to 15 miles.
Big batteries are usually fitted by those who want to do longer bike rides(30 plus miles) or use a throttle with no rider input.
From this I am sure you can determine what applies to your own usage.
Hope that helps
KudosDave

 

[Artstu]

I'm completely lost

I hope you've got a big battery then As Eddie says your plans could evolve as you realise just how nice an e-bike is to ride, so go for the biggest battery you can get.

 

[Blew it]

I'm completely lost

You and me both, I'm afraid the forum we joined seven years ago is a rather different place today.

 

[trex]

...
I have just read again that you have explained that the Woosh bike assists at 900 per cent of rider input. So how do you determine rider input. I normally consider that an average rider has 200 watts of power in their legs,so the Woosh bike delivers 1800 watts of power,is that what you are saying?
KudosDave

No, that's not what the line means.
Firstly, I did not mention Woosh in the thread up to then. Secondly, if the cyclist inputs 10W, Bosch bikes would give 25W in assist while Chinese bikes can give a lot more assist than the Bosch bikes 'like nine times' 10W, like 90W. You omitted the word 'like' which is meant to make the point qualitatively as opposed to quantitatively.
I did not mention any wattage or any motors.
You misunderstood then jumped at my post.
In the other post that I referred you to read, I gave the example to illustrate what I was saying, I was hoping you would read before misunderstanding again what I actually wrote. So I repeat it here:

If a man weighing 125kgs climbs a 10% gradient hill at 10mph, the motor power required is 450W if on throttle alone (I did not make that up, I consulted the e-bike emulator at ebike.ca)

In that case, the rider on the Bosch bike will have to put in:

eco: 300W (forget that)
tour: 214W (forget that too)
sport: 167W (forget that too)
turbo: 128W

If the cyclist uses throttle, the assist ratio is much greater than 900%, it's infinite, but if he uses pedelec, you can expect that Chinese (BPM) bikes can assist much more and cyclist input less than the 128W
'like 400W from the motor and 50W from the cyclist'.
That's what I meant by the choice of the words 'like 900%' - you left out the word 'like' hence quoted me out of context.

 

[trex]

No Trex, I have little care for Woosh,they are a cheap Chinese bike that sells on price on the internet,there are others before and there will be others again.
...
KudosDave

I don't care what you think of Woosh - if I have to make a comment, you are rather obsessed by them. There ought to be a rule here 'Thou shall not say ill of thou neighbours'. How often other traders comment about your bikes?

 

[1boris]

No, that's not what the line means.
Firstly, I did not mention Woosh in the thread up to then. Secondly, if the cyclist inputs 10W, Bosch bikes would give 25W in assist while Chinese bikes can give a lot more assist than the Bosch bikes 'like nine times' 10W, like 90W. You omitted the word 'like' which is meant to make the point qualitatively as opposed to quantitatively.
I did not mention any wattage or any motors.
You misunderstood then jumped at my post.
In the other post that I referred you to read, I gave the example to illustrate what I was saying, I was hoping you would read before misunderstanding again what I actually wrote. So I repeat it here:

If a man weighing 125kgs climbs a 10% gradient hill at 10mph, the motor power required is 450W if on throttle alone (I did not make that up, I consulted the e-bike emulator at ebike.ca)

In that case, the rider on the Bosch bike will have to put in:

eco: 300W (forget that)
tour: 214W (forget that too)
sport: 167W (forget that too)

turbo: 128W

If the cyclist uses throttle, the assist ratio is much greater than 900%, it's infinite, but if he uses pedelec, you can expect that Chinese (BPM) bikes can assist much more and cyclist input less than the 128W
'like 400W from the motor and 50W from the cyclist'.
That's what I meant by the choice of the words 'like 900%' - you left out the word 'like' hence quoted me out of context.

You can not use ebike.ca to calculate a crank drive

 

[trex]

the 450W is from the load plot. That's the power required to push 150kgs (125kgs rider + 25kgs bike) up 10% gradient at 10mph for a bike shape object.

 

[Jimod]

You can not use ebike.ca to calculate a crank drive

There's only one way to find out how good or bad a bike is. That's to try it. People on here have mentioned some of my figures and wondered if I lived on the flat or was just fit. It's neither of those. I just don't use calculations. I simply go out and play. I now know which hills I can race up and which hills demand respect.

For the OP, 6 mile round trip is easy for most batteries. Both my bikes have 10 ah batteries, either would do the round trip for 5 days, although, I'd charge them everyday.

 

[electric.mike]

 

[Woosh]

No Trex, I have little care for Woosh,they are a cheap Chinese bike that sells on price on the internet,there are others before and there will be others again.
It's you Trex that I have had enough of,but you are connected to Woosh,you completely dominate this forum,with your ' I am always right,type attitude' ,but when pressed of evidence of your claims you deviate from the subject.
This thread is a classic example,where did you get your 900 per cent figure.
Still you will be able to demonstrate to all when you go to Redbridge and ride a bike against the Kalkhoff.
I assume you can ride a bike?
Dave


I have just read again that you have explained that the Woosh bike assists at 900 per cent of rider input. So how do you determine rider input. I normally consider that an average rider has 200 watts of power in their legs,so the Woosh bike delivers 1800 watts of power,is that what you are saying?
KudosDave

Kudos Dave,
I can appreciate that you may get riled by Trex but he is not employed by me officially or otherwise and therefore , I think, has every right to post on here - as does anyone. He is a good friend dating back for many years, is extremely clever (scientific background) but I actually don't speak to him that often. In his defence I don't think that he claims Woosh Bikes to be the be all and end all - he has praised many other bikes in the past, or certainly some of their features and even some of yours, if I recall.

This is actually not as bad as the rather insulting way you describe Woosh bikes at times ('cheap Chinese bike sold on the Internet' - and some of your's aren't?) and exaggerate claims of faults to your own advantage.
I do not do this to you. I have even recommended people to call you in the past when I haven't had stock or think one of your bikes might be better for them than one of ours. Perhaps I should stop doing so.

It is very busy right now and I am fully hands on, not stopping from 7 til around 5 each day. It seems like you don't have enough to do, so I suggest you go roll up your sleeves and get out on the shop floor like me.

Hatti

 

[musicbooks]

Thanks for the advice.. I think..

 

[musicbooks]

Good to hear from you, Blew it