Does bicycle weight really matter?
- Thread starter damian
- Start date
I agree Dave, for sales volume the Karoo has got it right, hence my saying there have been many earlier Karoos, so obviously a successful setup.
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I think this concept has too small a sales volume to be competitive on price. Fortunately there are enough who don't care about the cost.
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To me e-bike implies full time assist or something near to it. These are more occasional assist and far easier to ride unpowered than the vast majority of e-bikes.
For those reasons I don't think of them as e-bikes and I don't compare them to regular e-bikes. They are a different animal, road bikes with some assistance only when needed.
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Yeah you're probably right...... but the trouble is I'm one of those people that will look at the bike its based on, what price i can get that bike searching the net (not rrp prices) then i'll see how much has been put on top for the Ekit.
The Cytronex are just too much of a mark up on top of the unassisted base bicycles for me.
But i get it that some people wont care and just see the whole package.
add this bike up in bits
https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/Electric-Bikes-UK-Dealer/Haibike-xDuro-Full-Seven-Carbon-Ultimate-2016
13k for what? dropper post +300 pmsl
https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/Electric-Bikes-UK-Dealer/Haibike-xDuro-Full-Seven-Carbon-Ultimate-2016
13k for what? dropper post +300 pmsl
I looked at manufacturing a carbon e-bike,all the right bits are easily obtainable but really what is the point. These 6061 ally frames are actually not heavy.
The weight saving is maybe only 0.5 kg,on say a 17 kg e-bike is it worth it?
Also carbon needs very careful design especially any heavy attachments,carbon does have a habit of compressing under load,attached components easily become loose.
I picked up that Haibike Carbon at the NEC cycle show,it appeared light but not especially so and got very heavy when they said £14k.
If Specialised made a light e-bike I could see some wealthy guy wanting one at £5k,but it's the name that would sell it not value.
KudosDave
The weight saving is maybe only 0.5 kg,on say a 17 kg e-bike is it worth it?
Also carbon needs very careful design especially any heavy attachments,carbon does have a habit of compressing under load,attached components easily become loose.
I picked up that Haibike Carbon at the NEC cycle show,it appeared light but not especially so and got very heavy when they said £14k.
If Specialised made a light e-bike I could see some wealthy guy wanting one at £5k,but it's the name that would sell it not value.
KudosDave
woosh cannot yet make the Karoo lighter because the whole bike has to be made in China. But most members can self build a 15kg e-bike. My current project is based on a £300 10.2 kg Giant D5. I intend to add a 2.3kg motor and a 2.5kg battery pack for approximately £500. @tillson: no wiring loom because I'll fit a torque sensor, just one tiny cable for the LCD to the handlebars.
It isn't about the money! I wrote a business plan for building tailor made pedelecs, I don't have the capital to start so it isn't going to happen, my target was to sell up to 35 bikes a year from a starting price of 2300€. I could imagine building a one off for someone with deep pockets for 3500€.
The bike I dream of costs 6900€, a pedelec trike built on the cheap 5000€ and an e-vélomobile north of 11,000€. The Coboc looks pretty tame compared. Because their market is tiny they take their margin on each and every bike. The Chinese dump 100s of thousands of sub 700€ pedelecs all over the world making a lot more mark up than you would imagine on each one.
I thought some of you guys were businessmen? You should understand stuff like this...
The bike I dream of costs 6900€, a pedelec trike built on the cheap 5000€ and an e-vélomobile north of 11,000€. The Coboc looks pretty tame compared. Because their market is tiny they take their margin on each and every bike. The Chinese dump 100s of thousands of sub 700€ pedelecs all over the world making a lot more mark up than you would imagine on each one.
I thought some of you guys were businessmen? You should understand stuff like this...
if you plan to sell a 2,300 Eur bike, most of your profit will have to come from the discount you get from the donor bike manufacturer, not from the kit, not from the assembly. Profit from the latter will be swallowed up by staff and premises costs. Therefore, such a plan would only work if the manufacturer of the donor bikes agree to supply with you modding it. Imagine KTM agree to supply you. Easier said than done. If you want to sell a 700 Eur bike, you only need enough capital to import 100 bikes, 70,000 Eur capital. But you would need to sell more than 100 bikes a year to feed just one mouth. Just as difficult. The easiest way I imagine for someone who wants to start a business dealing in e-bikes is to acquire a LBS, then take on a dealership with Raleigh Group, then offer conversions.
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I can't answer this on an open forum, one never knows what the future may hold. I'll just say that after studying French and EU pedelec laws and using a particular form of French business it is possible.
Please, you are English...
noun: donor; plural noun: donors
Please, you are English...
noun: donor; plural noun: donors
- synonyms: giver, contributor, benefactor, benefactress, subscriber, donator
antonyms: recipient
We already have some bespoke bike builders and frame makers in Britain who've have successful small businesses running for years, catering for those who want something different and special. They don't make fortunes and are effectively always working at shop floor level, so they have to be the right sort of person.
There probably is a niche for the equivalent in e-biking, since we've already had those who import the odd exotic e-bike in the £4000 to £8000 range such as the Swizzbee, Optibike and Flyer X, just for something a bit special.
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I have been in business for 43 years...I admire anyone who starts a business in the UK now,the bureacracy is mind blowing and getting worse.It isn't about the money! I wrote a business plan for building tailor made pedelecs, I don't have the capital to start so it isn't going to happen, my target was to sell up to 35 bikes a year from a starting price of 2300€. I could imagine building a one off for someone with deep pockets for 3500€.
The bike I dream of costs 6900€, a pedelec trike built on the cheap 5000€ and an e-vélomobile north of 11,000€. The Coboc looks pretty tame compared. Because their market is tiny they take their margin on each and every bike. The Chinese dump 100s of thousands of sub 700€ pedelecs all over the world making a lot more mark up than you would imagine on each one.
I thought some of you guys were businessmen? You should understand stuff like this...
If you import a pedelec from China you pay 6% duty but if you import a non electric bike you pay 20% duty plus 48% anti dumping duty,yes thats right 68% total duty,so your donor 100 USD becomes 168 USD plus shipping plus vat.
The Chinese allow 35 dollars to assemble a pedelec,try putting one together in the UK with minimum wage,compulsory pensions(soon),business rates,health and safety,factory rents at 6 times China,no export kickbacks......impossible to compete.
Yes you can buy some real cheap pedelecs out of China,the towns of Yiwu and Anhui province will assemble all sorts of rubbish but we have the sale of goods act,En 15194 certification,CE certification,warranty,soon maybe type approval....you would soon want to exit the marketplace selling cheap bikes,the chinese do it themselves out of Birmingham,selling e-bikes for £350 incl vat,but notice how the busineses keep changing premises and names,even our revenue cannot keep up with them.
The bikes from the better manufacturers out of China are getting pretty good now,the difference in quality between them and German assemblers is not so much now.
AnotherKiwi....did you understand all this? And its the tip of the iceberg if one includes Intrastat returns,cross border EEC vat returns and EEC tarif codings.
Still sure about us businessman not understanding 'stuff like this'
The reality is we all dream about building exotic top priced e-bikes but the market is up to £1000.00....my Kudos Rapide and Sonata are about as good as you can build out of China,I would put them up against any £2k German build but the market is my Tornado at £1095.00.
KudosDave
C
Cyclezee
Guest
Indeed, that's life in the real world which is not understood by those who personally import Chinese parts including batteries etc., which are, as we have seen recently, are sometimes illegally shipped by air.
An individual may get their parcel through customs with a fake invoice and avoid duty and think it's easy, alternatively this may happen http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/importing-from-china-learn-from-my-costly-mistake.22853/
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I don't understand why not more bike shops take on conversions. They only need to keep two basic kits, the Oxygen kit or similar for people who like hub drives, BBS01/02 or woosh GSM for people who like crank drives. It's not like it's difficult to do. Fit them to £300 hybrids and they can flog these bikes all day long, I reckon to every fourth customer who walks in the shop.
Not knowing anything about that aspect of things, would that not take the shop into dodgy accident or claim territory, for change of use/conformity, or something similar.
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Perhaps best to invoice the bike separately, with the kit and fitting charge separately?
However, some e-bike dealers have been supplying complete e-bikes based on kits without any problems. After Tony Castles and A to B launched the Nano-Brompton, I think the Electric Bike Shop was the dealer who launched the rival Brompton fitted with a Bafang kit. C H White were another dealer who sold kit fitted bikes. Bikes were bought from both of these by forum members.
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