Dodgy batteries ?

[Jerry Atric]

Hi everyone, I am a new member of this group and new to ebikes.
I purchased 2 Tongsheng kits and was advised to buy battery packs with known cells i.e. Samsung, LG, Panasonic and the like.
I bought 2 packs from the R-Team with supposedly PANASONIC cells. A couple of weeks ago the charging port failed and needed replacing. Being in the electrical trade for 50 years, it was an easy job to replace. I opened the box, and guess what........surprise surprise they were not Panasonic but SINC cells ! I emailed seller who said "it is one small brand from Panasonic"!
Can anyone tell me if they are a subsidiary of Panasonic or are they just Chinese crap ! I was also surprised that there were no internal fuses, might have to order some Nomex underpants.

Thanks
Jerry

 

[Woosh]

how much did you pay?
The cells are 18650-2600mAH from xinchibattery, they are Chinese manufacturers.

SINC BATTERY,XINCHI battery professional lithium battery manufacturer

SINC BATTERY,XINCHI battery professional lithium battery manufacturer

www.sincbattery.com

 

[Jerry Atric]

how much did you pay?
The cells are 18650-2600mAH from xinchibattery, they are Chinese manufacturers.

SINC BATTERY,XINCHI battery professional lithium battery manufacturer

SINC BATTERY,XINCHI battery professional lithium battery manufacturer

www.sincbattery.com

They were £218.88 each.

 

[saneagle]

When the charge port goes, it's because you didn't have the charger switched on when you stuck the jack in the battery. The inrush spark from that can weld the blade in the socket to the jack, and when you try to pull it out, the blade shorts to the pin and you get more sparks and vaporised metal, or it just eats away at the metal each time you plug in until you get connection issues.

Those batteries don't look too x-fantastic, but you paid a low price for them. They'll probably be OK, even though not Panasonic cells. Unfortunately batteries with guaranteed quality are a lot more expensive. If they last 2/3 as long as a £300 battery, you've done alright.

 

[Jerry Atric]

When the charge port goes, it's because you didn't have the charger switched on when you stuck the jack in the battery. The inrush spark from that can weld the blade in the socket to the jack, and when you try to pull it out, the blade shorts to the pin and you get more sparks and vaporised metal, or it just eats away at the metal each time you plug in until you get connection issues.

Those batteries don't look too x-fantastic, but you paid a low price for them. They'll probably be OK, even though not Panasonic cells. Unfortunately batteries with guaranteed quality are a lot more expensive. If they last 2/3 as long as a £300 battery, you've done alright.

Thanks for your advice. The port was a bad connection from day one, I just got fed up of fiddling with it to get it to charge hence the reason for changing the part. I think I may have to send the seller a less polite email.

 

[Bonzo Banana]

So many false claims for battery capacity and battery brand when it comes to ebikes and ebike batteries. How can the end consumer check this without pulling the battery pack apart? I was sold batteries with Samsung cells but I have no idea if they actually are because I'm not taking them apart. There is a meant to be a common Chinese battery which operates very similar to the Samsung cells but much cheaper and its quite possible the battery packs have those cells. They are meant to be OK cells.

There was a offer for an ebike on hotukdeals a year or so back and it was about £350 claiming to have Panasonic cells it didn't. However some people had got Panasonic cells but most got cheaper generic Chinese cells. The battery pack was easier to disassemble and peel back some of the tape as a low capacity pack. I sort of wondered if you questioned the seller if the battery pack really had Panasonic cells if that would merit you being sent the better type of battery pack.

 

[saneagle]

So many false claims for battery capacity and battery brand when it comes to ebikes and ebike batteries. How can the end consumer check this without pulling the battery pack apart? I was sold batteries with Samsung cells but I have no idea if they actually are because I'm not taking them apart. There is a meant to be a common Chinese battery which operates very similar to the Samsung cells but much cheaper and its quite possible the battery packs have those cells. They are meant to be OK cells.

There was a offer for an ebike on hotukdeals a year or so back and it was about £350 claiming to have Panasonic cells it didn't. However some people had got Panasonic cells but most got cheaper generic Chinese cells. The battery pack was easier to disassemble and peel back some of the tape as a low capacity pack. I sort of wondered if you questioned the seller if the battery pack really had Panasonic cells if that would merit you being sent the better type of battery pack.

I have a battery tester. I've bought very many batteries, mainly at the cheap Chinese end of the spectrum. I never found one that had less capacity than the listing. The only thing I noticed was the different amount of sag in use, particularly when the battery was near empty.

 

[sjpt]

I have a battery tester. I've bought very many batteries, mainly at the cheap Chinese end of the spectrum. I never found one that had less capacity than the listing. The only thing I noticed was the different amount of sag in use, particularly when the battery was near empty.

Have you also kept track of the life of these batteries; age, miles, recharge cycles, ...???

 

[jokskot]

I have a battery tester. I've bought very many batteries, mainly at the cheap Chinese end of the spectrum. I never found one that had less capacity than the listing. The only thing I noticed was the different amount of sag in use, particularly when the battery was near empty.

Have you tried GTF TR18650 9900mA????!!!!
I think these would change your mind about the reliability of capacity claims for Chinese cells in general

 

[saneagle]

Have you also kept track of the life of these batteries; age, miles, recharge cycles, ...???

No, but it's clear that some last longer than others, though that seems to be random rather than linked to price. BMSBattery ones have always done quite well. I had one from PSWPower that was pretty crappy, but that might not have been representative of what they normally sell or what they sell today. Stock from these resellers is always changing source.

 

[StuartsProjects]

What capacity would this likley test to, from an advert on Aliexpress;



200Ahr or just a bit less ?

 

[lenny]

GTF TR18650 9900mA????!!!!

 

[Nealh]

What capacity would this likley test to, from an advert on Aliexpress;

View attachment 52233

200Ahr or just a bit less ?

10ah max.

 

[Bikes4two]

........surprise surprise they were not Panasonic but SINC cells ! I emailed seller who said "it is one small brand from Panasonic"!

Their answer is not acceptible. Irrespective of whether the Xinchi batteries come from Panasonic or not, they are not Panasonic and that is a trades description issue.

But let's say they were from Panasonic - how do you know if they are the same quality/standard as those from Panasonic?

Some years ago the company I worked for bought hard drives from Seagate and demanded the highest quality. In the Seagate testing regime, some passed the highest standard and some didn't - the lesser ones although perfectly functional were sold as consumer products.

I was also surprised that there were no internal fuses,

A good sign of Chinese Crap then - given your background, an issue easily resolved.

I've heard it said on here that battery packs don't normally have internal fuses but not having taken many apart to comment otherwise, all I can say is the bottle battery and rack battery I bought from PSWPower have internal fuses (I know this 'cos I've had them apart) and I certainly built one into my self built 10s2p battery pack - why wouldn't you?

Thanks
Jerry
[/QUOTE]

 

[saneagle]

I was also surprised that there were no internal fuses, might have to order some Nomex underpants.

Ebike batteries normally don't have a main fuse because they don't need one. That's one of the functions of the BMS to switch off discharge when maximum current is reached. The BMS is like a giant fuse or trip-switch.

 

[Bosa]

They were £218.88 each.

Buy a better quality battery Samsung ,LG , Panasonic cells etc Way too dangerous those cheap Chinese batteries. When its cheap , its generally crap and someone in China has not been paid for their work hence the price,

 

[Woosh]

When its cheap , its generally crap and someone in China has not been paid for their work hence the price

Low wage in China is not the reason. Chinese government spends a lot of money supporting battery manufacturers, more than the rest of the world put together. That is why 4 out of 5 world biggest producers are Chinese. The cells are made on automated production lines so labour cost is very small. Chinese cells are cheaper because of automation and subsidies. The problem with cheap batteries is reject cells from factories find their way into those packs. If you are unlucky, your pack could be made with reject cells and reject BMS. In your other thread, your mate can sell a few Neodrive kits for half the price, the same route applies to batteries too.

 

[Bosa]

Low wage in China is not the reason. Chinese government spends a lot of money supporting battery manufacturers, more than the rest of the world put together. That is why 4 out of 5 world biggest producers are Chinese. The cells are made on automated production lines so labour cost is very small. Chinese cells are cheaper because of automation and subsidies. The problem with cheap batteries is reject cells from factories find their way into those packs. If you are unlucky, your pack could be made with reject cells and reject BMS. In your other thread, your mate can sell a few Neodrive kits for half the price, the same route applies to batteries too.

Chinese batteries are still crap and cheap. Ebikes e-scooters blowing up does not help there reputation.
Being the biggest does not make you necessarily equate to a quality product.

Trek , Specialized the list goes on do not use Chinese batteries.

 

[Bosa]

Ebike batteries normally don't have a main fuse because they don't need one. That's one of the functions of the BMS to switch off discharge when maximum current is reached. The BMS is like a giant fuse or trip-switch.

Many e-bike batteries do have an internal fuse, some even have two, one in the charging circuit and one on the supply side. A few have the latter accessible on the outside.

Bosch ebike batteries have a fuse. Cheap batteries dont!

 

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giant had a load of dodgy charges last year as over charging the batts and bricking them on top of the giant cracks in there brand new bike frames and making ppl wait 6 months for new frames to get made.

just because you pay 10k for it does not mean its not a heap of crap that will fall apart go over to embn forums and look at all that broken crap it never ends.