Discussing the Option and Ideas to safer cycling.

[flecc]

Indeed, the scheme I quoted was on a straight through route with crossroads and it wasn't working well enough.

Excellent idea re: van passenger Chris, years ago vans regularly had "van boys" as assistants, a few still do, so the concept is far from new for the city transport sector.

The assistant/passenger could have a GPS unit with the route shown on screen in road form so left turns would be clearly indicated coming up, alerting them into lookout duty.
.

 

[MikeyBikey]

This site has another take on the problem:
RoadPeace calls for mandatory sensors & cameras on HGVs to save lives of cyclists & pedestrians (2.44.28) @BBCr4today BBC iPlayer - Today: 21/11/2013 . As pedestrians make up 51% of road fatalities...

 

[MikeyBikey]

And while we're at it, lets have Automatic Remote Reading of HGV Tachometers by sensors attached to the congestion zone & other cameras. So then there'll be a picture of the driver to go with any dodgy readings. Apparently half the trucks stopped by police during latest crack down had problems.

 

[Scimitar]

But in the example I gave and many others, checking the mirror when about to set off wouldn't help. A cyclist riding into the critical position as the driver starts the turn after setting off won't be seen, because he's having to look into his turn, not looking sideways at 90 degrees and staring at three left hand mirrors. I know from my own trucking experience that some of the things being expected of truck drivers are simply impossible.

Stupidity kills.
Darwin in action.

 

[MikeyBikey]

Ideas and options for SAFER cycling is the thread..mmm. Well since the biggest danger to cyclists are badly driven vehicles..Then one of the best ways to protect them is remove bad drivers from road..And the 2500 extra police should make a start. Then have Mandatory Remotely Wireless Readable Vehicle Tachometer, VED, MOT, Insurance and Licence at every CCTV spot. Impound vehicles not legal, auction or scrap after 30 days if driver skips. Automatic Corporate Manslaughter charge if rider dies as result of collision.
Intelligence compensates
Nikola Tesla in action.

 

[flecc]

Mike, you are obsessively anti-motor vehicles and drivers as all your completely irrelevant posts in this thread show. Nothing you've suggested would have saved a single one of the six cyclists killed in that recent two week period.

You so busy raving about drivers you haven't even noticed how the deaths have suddenly stopped.

They've stopped because the huge wave of publicity about the cause has finally sunk in sufficiently for cyclists to avoid the danger spots at present.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with truck speed, MOTs, tachometers, insurance, licence, illegal vehicles or even bad driving. It is only a blind spot issue, nothing else.

Look at the photo below from the last accident which was typical and you'll see that the handlebars and mangled frame of the bike indicate the bike went under the foremost wheel on that side. That cyclist was below the mirrors and indicator and slightly forward of them for that to happen. That is a completely blind area in that kind of truck as I know from personal experience, and none of the recommended mirrors cover it.

In addition the turned front wheels indicate the truck is still on the corner as a second photo showed so had stopped instantly, no high speed involved on that right angle corner. It wasn't only that foolish cyclist who stood no chance, the poor truck driver stood no chance either, which was why the police did not arrest him as they normally routinely do.

 

[Streethawk]

Here's an easy one, replace ALL of these:

And replace them with these:

In the case of a left hook the cyclist at least has a possible escape route. Railings on left hand turns are deadly.

 

[Kudoscycles]

We have a possible solution for us e-bikes,we have a power source on board that non assisted bikes don't have,the battery! Could we mount a small but very powerful air horn on the handlebar and use it to indicate to the bus or lorry driver that we are here and coming through.
We sell those air horns on our rally business to warn spectators that a fast rally car is imminent,these horns are too big for cycle use but I am sure something could be made.
It would still require some savvy from us cyclists to use it often. The sound needs to be distinctive (not colonel bogey,hehe!!) and demand attention.
There are horns that we sell for rally cars are less than £20.00 so not expensive.
I don't think the ting-ting of a bell means much to a big truck!!
What do members think? Is it worth some development?
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

There is a very loud bike air horn on the market Dave, the Airzound, and I used one for a while. It was far too loud for use on pedestrians and after a while I abandoned it since it didn't do what you suggested. When I blasted it for a miscreant driver, they'd look around puzzled for the motor vehicle that produced it and wouldn't even notice me!

The horn is the red buttoned thing on the left handlebar and it's air tank is on the downtube looking like a bottle in the second photo. Under the red button when lifted is the Schrader valve for pumping up the air tank with the bike pump, 80 lbs or more lasting a long time and producing alarming noise levels. You'll notice I had a bell as well so I didn't have to give pedestrians heart attacks. Airzound website

 

[Streethawk]

I have an Airzound too, and have stopped using it for the same reason, traffic hear it alright, but they are looking around for a large truck, they can't comprehend that sound coming from a bike... making it useless.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Flecc....should have done my homework before posting....I found that Zound device....but its all a bit messy,a seperate air bottle,press button and horn. It really needs to be an integral unit with one strap to mount onto the handlebar or top tube. Also it needs to be a very unique and distinctive noise,maybe more electronic than blast. A big press button for quick operation.
But we do need to buy and use it,unfortunately there are just not enough e-bikers to gain the momentum for all to get used to the noise,so it needs to be used by non assisted bikes as well.
KudosDave

 

[MikeyBikey]

Too right Streethawk, an escape route, a Toucan crossing, remove the posts, other obstructions and extend that path for the entire length of the road, not just the pathetic few metres in evidence (afaics)

 

[MikeyBikey]

I wonder how loud a horn-loaded Piezoelectric sounder can be these days KudosDave? It removes need for pressure tank (soda bottle!) and hose/valve assembly capable of securely holding 100psi, without leaking.
Would a modified Smoke Alarm or a bike specific 'Personal' alarm do the job? They're pretty loud!

 

[flecc]

Also it needs to be a very unique and distinctive noise,maybe more electronic than blast. A big press button for quick operation.

There was no problem with the button Dave, right under my thumb for instant use with no delay. Although you felt it was messy, it fitted easily and uses existing bike bottle mounts so was very convenient and I never found it any trouble to maintain in use. In fact I enjoyed the effect it could have on those around and at £13.99 the cost was no problem.

I did in fact adopt a 110 dB electronic horn later, shown below, but although quite loud it didn't seem to help. As Streethawk has noticed as well in his post above, drivers just don't associate any loud sound with a bike and just look for large motor vehicles behind them, so it is just that which sadly kills this idea.

 

[Kudoscycles]

MikeyBikey....your right,that smoke alarm noise is very piercing and it runs off a tiny battery so off our big battery the drain would be negigible and non assisted riders could use the same noise.
Who's feeling inventive,suggest it to Boris.
Its also currently produced in big numbers so the basic components will be very cheap.
Maybe,good idea.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

I suppose it could be wireless linked to flash a warning on the bus/lorry dash.
I think speed is a factor...the 30 mph lycra clad speed cyclist going fast up the inside of a slow moving line of traffic is taking a big risk of someone turning left and not giving the driver a fair chance of spotting him,without wishing to open an well worn posting it does justify the 15.5 mph assist limit on our e-bikes.
We do ourselves no favours by some jumping red lights,ignoring zebra crossings and riding the wrong way down one way streets.....I am not suggesting that such activity caused the recent spate of accidents but it does suggest irresponsible behaviour by some cyclists which gives politicians some ammunition to distract the blaim from the fact that they haven't addressed the 'expensive to cure' problem of our roads not being cycle friendly.
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

I think speed is a factor...the 30 mph lycra clad speed cyclist going fast up the inside of a slow moving line of traffic is taking a big risk of someone turning left and not giving the driver a fair chance of spotting him

This is undoubtedly a very big factor. At 30 mph a cyclist travels 44 ft in one second, even at 20 mph over 29 ft in one second. Both these speeds whisk a cyclist from out of view into the danger area in so short a time that drivers just cannot be expected to see them in any mirror. A driver left turning into a side road simply cannot spend every second looking sideways at the nearside mirrors and all the talk about additional mirrors solving the problem is nonsense.

The only solution to the left turn problem is for cyclists not to ride in the danger zone at junctions, it really is that simple. If they must ride alongside large vehicles, the safe place is alongside the rear wheels at the same speed since they don't travel sideways, and a cyclist can easily stop in time from that position if a truck starts to turn left.
.

 

[mike killay]

To take a slightly alternative line.
Most of the fault lies not with the lorries but with the cyclists.
Also, many of these left turns in London seem to have pedestrian protection in the form of a fence on the kerb.
One answer would be to move the fence in board on the footpath and construct a left turn, protected bike path.
However, this will not help the cyclist who is alongside a lorry and intending to go straight on while the lorry turns left.
Unfortunately, many of those killed have been riding carefully but too slowly. The usual hooligan rider will have jumped the lights ages ago.
So,
a Protected left turns for bikes,
b Education for the untrained cyclist in the from of road signs depicting left turning lorries crushing bikes.
c Police to enforce road discipline on cyclists. I noticed in Belgium that the Belgians tend to do what the Police tell them rather than the usual British response of resentment and surliness. The result is that ALL their vehicles and pedestrians seem to integrate with care and common sense, rather than the never ending rush of the UK's 'Devil take the hindmost' road traffic. There is no need to prove one's manliness, rather a need to prove one's good citizenship and sense of responsibility for others.

 

[RobF]

Flecc is spot on.

Keeping out of the left side danger zone is no more than common sense.

Trouble is many roadies dismiss it as victim blaming.

 

[flecc]

The Met police are flooding 2500 officers onto the London streets all this coming week with instructions that there is to be zero tolerance towards any bad road behaviour by anyone, drivers, cyclists, pedestrians are all going to have to behave impeccably, or else.

Of course this will inevitably mean cyclists will feel the brunt of their action since they have the great majority of misbehaving within their ranks, and this will again make them feel the victim is being blamed. That's not unfair though, despite the thoughtless and careless drivers there undoubtedly are, in these recent cases it is the victim who has been causing most of the problem.