Help! Disaster, Hub motor failed, discontinued!

[NOTTNICK]

I really hope someone can help here. I got my wife a fantastic hub powered Benelli E bile a few years ago. (I got myself one too). We love them and we like the spec.
However, her rear hub motor is playing up. Even though it still works, it has got extremely noisy and we know it will fail soon. It sounds like bearings.
Today we have been informed by Benelli that the motor is discontinued so cannot be replaced.
I wonder if:

• Someone recognises the hub motor (maybe it is generic), and can tell me where I might find a replacement.
• Someone is able to attempt a repair.
• Someone thinks that a different hub motor might work with the system (there are nine pins).
• Someone has another suggestion that won’t involve throwing the bike away and replacing it.

We are both really keen cyclists and are desperate to get out again. It has taken Benelli 3 weeks to inform us about this.

(I posted this originally a short while ago, but it vanished from the forum when I tried to Edit it. Apologies if it now appears twice)

 

[Scorpio]

Hi Nick,
The electricals connections look to be a common style so there should be no problems finding a wheel that will physically fit and connect up to your exisitng electrics.

Things to check (hopefully somebody more experinced can comment), do Benelli use standard wiring (or is is standard connector wired up in a non-standard way?), and which motor will suit you best (some pull well up hills, others are better suited for high speed use). There are 2 types of gear cluster (cassette fitting or freeewheel) - you need to pick a wheel that has the same fitting as your bike so you can transfer the gear cluster across)

I thought I saw your question earlier then couldn't find it again, now I understand why

 

[Woosh]

It looks like a Shengyi DWG07. It should be repairable.

Ebike/Bicycle Brushless Wheel Hub Motor | Shengyi

Ebike brushless motor manufacturer/supplier in China. All the weight is on the motor, which provides maximum traction in different conditions. Competitive price. Get a Quote!

www.syimotor.com

 

[NOTTNICK]

Hi Nick,
The electricals connections look to be a common style so there should be no problems finding a wheel that will physically fit and connect up to your exisitng electrics.

Things to check (hopefully somebody more experinced can comment), do Benelli use standard wiring (or is is standard connector wired up in a non-standard way?), and which motor will suit you best (some pull well up hills, others are better suited for high speed use). There are 2 types of gear cluster (cassette fitting or freeewheel) - you need to pick a wheel that has the same fitting as your bike so you can transfer the gear cluster across)

I thought I saw your question earlier then couldn't find it again, now I understand why

That is really helpful and extremely encouraging. Points 2 & 3 should be easy to determine. Not sure how I can check the Benelli wiring though. However I am sure a solution could be found for this as the connections are of a common style.

 

[NOTTNICK]

It looks like a Shengyi DWG07. It should be repairable.

Ebike/Bicycle Brushless Wheel Hub Motor | Shengyi

Ebike brushless motor manufacturer/supplier in China. All the weight is on the motor, which provides maximum traction in different conditions. Competitive price. Get a Quote!

www.syimotor.com

Thanks so much for your advice here.I agree, it does look very similar, I am sure you are correct.. This info will help in investigating repairs. I couldn't find a supplier through Google searching just now if replacement is the final answer, but I bet there is a trail I can follow.

 

[NOTTNICK]

It looks like a Shengyi DWG07. It should be repairable.

Ebike/Bicycle Brushless Wheel Hub Motor | Shengyi

Ebike brushless motor manufacturer/supplier in China. All the weight is on the motor, which provides maximum traction in different conditions. Competitive price. Get a Quote!

www.syimotor.com

I have just noticed that you are a cycle trader, does that mean that you might take on the challenge if I send the wheel to you?

 

[Woosh]

wait until the fault is obvious.

 

[soundwave]

peter might have a go at it.

The home of ebike motor parts -

Spare parts, bearings and repair service for most common ebike motors

www.performancelinebearings.com

 

[Nealh]

Are you any good at diy bike maintenance ?
The hub looks pretty simple and any replacement of bearings pretty much straight forward. The face plate is held on by screw that is half the battle taking the lid off easily.

 

[vfr400]

There's a fair chance that the noise is not caused in the motor even though the motor is noisy, so don't be in a hurry to replace the motor.

The motor controller sends timed pulses of energy to the motor. If the timing is off, you can get anyhing from rough running to an extreme rasping noise. It sounds and feels like the gears are stripped, but all it is is the pulse timing. The cause of the timing issue is 50% of the time the motor connector not in properly. Yours is under the right side chainstay. There's a marked anular ring, which shows how far the outer must be pushed on to make a proper connection. It's at the end of the arrow. Make sure that the edge of the outer reaches that line and isn't 1mm short. The next thing to check is the connection at the controller end of the cable. Your photos don't show where the controller is, but you can follow the cable until you come to it. The other 50% of causes of the mistiming are when a mosfet fails in the controller. You have to do a simple electrical resistance check to see if your controller is OK.

The Benelli uses more or less standard Chinese parts, so everything is replaceable and interchangeable with other standard parts, so you have nothing to worry about apart from finding the cause of your problem.

 

[Deleted member 33385]

It sounds and feels like the gears are stripped, but all it is is the pulse timing.

Would that explain the strange grinding noise from my motor, when my battery was extremely low on power the other day? Low voltage, not enough power for pulses? Only happens when extremely low on power, low enough to make the motor grind and cut out. I won't let that happen again..

 

[soundwave]

 

[Deleted member 33385]

Are those your fingers and fingerprints Soundwave? I'll 3D print them onto a glove, which I'll use for all of my future crimes! Actually that sort of thing might even be possible if the resolution and lens quality increase sufficiently. Youtube kills quality though...

 

[soundwave]

it took a fkn hr to get that thing of with 3 of us in a bike shop the bearings was destroyed i got a new one tho under warranty

 

[Benjahmin]

As Vfr says' it could be electrical.
A couple of years ago I had intermittant vibration and nasty grinding noise that was so bad I could feel it through the handlebars (front hub).
I was convinced it was lack of grease on the gearing, stripped the motor twice thinking I hadn't done it properly.
Then I listened to what vfr was saying and notice that one of phase connectors was hear damaged and distorted with signs of cable insulation being cooked. Changed the connectors for MT60's and, hey presto, no more vibration.
Do check the connector at or near the motor. Is it distorted or showing signs of heat? Could save you a lot of time and distress.

 

[NOTTNICK]

There's a fair chance that the noise is not caused in the motor even though the motor is noisy, so don't be in a hurry to replace the motor.

The motor controller sends timed pulses of energy to the motor. If the timing is off, you can get anyhing from rough running to an extreme rasping noise. It sounds and feels like the gears are stripped, but all it is is the pulse timing. The cause of the timing issue is 50% of the time the motor connector not in properly. Yours is under the right side chainstay. There's a marked anular ring, which shows how far the outer must be pushed on to make a proper connection. It's at the end of the arrow. Make sure that the edge of the outer reaches that line and isn't 1mm short. The next thing to check is the connection at the controller end of the cable. Your photos don't show where the controller is, but you can follow the cable until you come to it. The other 50% of causes of the mistiming are when a mosfet fails in the controller. You have to do a simple electrical resistance check to see if your controller is OK.

The Benelli uses more or less standard Chinese parts, so everything is replaceable and interchangeable with other standard parts, so you have nothing to worry about apart from finding the cause of your problem.

What we do notice is that for the first 5 miles or so it is quiet. Then it builds up and gets worse and worse. I was thinking that it was the bearings getting warm but the electrical source does sound like it is worth investigating.
Thanks for re-assurance about generic parts. I was pretty certain that would be the case. A lot of investment for a small firm otherwise.

 

[WheezyRider]

What we do notice is that for the first 5 miles or so it is quiet. Then it builds up and gets worse and worse. I was thinking that it was the bearings getting warm but the electrical source does sound like it is worth investigating.
Thanks for re-assurance about generic parts. I was pretty certain that would be the case. A lot of investment for a small firm otherwise.

Could it be the hall sensors playing up once they get warm?

If the bearings are knackered, you should feel it from cold just by rotating the wheel backwards and forwards.

If you have two similar bikes and one is fine the other is noisy, try swapping the back wheel between the two and see if you still get the sound.

 

[vfr400]

Would that explain the strange grinding noise from my motor, when my battery was extremely low on power the other day? Low voltage, not enough power for pulses? Only happens when extremely low on power, low enough to make the motor grind and cut out. I won't let that happen again..

It could do. It wouldn't be caused by the low voltage, but whatever is causing it, like a bad connection, might show itself more at low voltage. The same could apply to a dodgy mosfet.

 

[NOTTNICK]

Could it be the hall sensors playing up once they get warm?

If the bearings are knackered, you should feel it from cold just by rotating the wheel backwards and forwards.

If you have two similar bikes and one is fine the other is noisy, try swapping the back wheel between the two and see if you still get the sound.

Not sure what Hall sensors are. The wheel spins fine. I have just pushed the connector together (I had separated it for the photo). There is a possibility that it went an extra click further in when I gave it a hard push. If that is the cause I shall be thrilled. We shall go for a cycle ride this morning and see. Fingers crossed.
If not, unfortunately my bike has a 29" wheel to her 27.5". I suppose I could try her wheel on my bike...........

 

[vfr400]

Not sure what Hall sensors are. The wheel spins fine. I have just pushed the connector together (I had separated it for the photo). There is a possibility that it went an extra click further in when I gave it a hard push. If that is the cause I shall be thrilled. We shall go for a cycle ride this morning and see. Fingers crossed.
If not, unfortunately my bike has a 29" wheel to her 27.5". I suppose I could try her wheel on my bike...........

Let us know how you get on.