dealers price for a 500w bosch battrey

[soundwave]

that works out to 482 quid when i bought it and paid 700 quid, so a profit of near 220 quid just to order it is taking the pi#".

so if you want one i suggest you try to get the price down as even if they make 50 quid its still profit and will sell more of them that want a upgrade to 500w.

 

[Wander]

There's VAT to be accounted for SW.

Dealer profit isn't £220. It works out at just £100 & that's IF they get the 'google' GBP to Euro exchange rate which in practice is hard to get.

That's before the dealer pays card or PayPal fees of generally between £15 - £25 on the £700.

Then they have to pay exchange and / or international payment fees on the payment to Bosch in Euros.

Actual profit probably only in the region of £50 - £70 & that's assuming the customer picks up the battery. If they send it out & absorb the shipping costs then profit comes down even more.

That's without taking into account the time it takes to take the order, order it from Bosch, send it out to the customer, deal with the customer on the phone etc. etc.

In fact if you take into account every cost associated including overhead absorption they are probably not much over break even on the transaction.

Quite honestly no dealer is going to retire on selling Bosch batteries!

 

[Gringo]

In fact if you take into account every cost associated including overhead absorption they are probably not much over break even on the transaction.

Quite honestly no dealer is going to retire on selling Bosch batteries

Now I feel so sad for the traders out there & guilty for having money to spend on my toys since giving up fags & booze.
Maybe I should sell a kidney or something and give the money to my local hard up dealer

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Nice of you to cover up the dealer name, but you've left their VAT number clear so its easy to see who it was invoiced too.

But, yes as Wander has pointed out, you're not correct on the profit numbers.

There is no one in eBiking making a fortune, the margin most eBike dealers get is less than normal bikes, so give them a break.

You don't haggle in Tesco and they're making a lot more margin and a lot more profit!

 

[LeighPing]

You don't haggle in Tesco and they're making a lot more margin and a lot more profit!

Yeah but you sometimes get 'Bogof'.

 

[Crockers]

You don't haggle in Tesco and they're making a lot more margin and a lot more profit!

Wrong....
Travis margin per item is much lower.....it's all a question of piling it high and selling it cheapish. I'm sure if you ordered 10,000 batteries the unit price would be much lower.

That was tongue in cheek.....

 

[soundwave]

You don't haggle in Tesco and they're making a lot more margin and a lot more profit!

wanna bet if i got 200 quids worth in the trolley ill call for a manager and if no discount will walk out and leave the lot there.

 

[Crockers]

On the subject if Vat. If the dealer is Vat registered surely he can claim back the Vat paid on the import. Therefore to calculate the "margin" excluding exchange rates it should be.

Base price less German Vat.
Then add on "margin"
Onto the total add uk Vat

Then when doing his Vat return he can offset the German Vat against his Vat bill.

Or have I missed something??

 

[Wander]

Or have I missed something??

Missed loads I'm afraid.

UK VAT registered dealer dealer doesn't pay German VAT. They have to account for UK VAT on their purchase from Bosch under the 'Reverse charge' procedure. Not going to explain all that, Google it if you want to, but basically you can ignore it for the purposes of working out their profit.

If you want to look at the dealer margin compare:-

Sales price £700
Less UK VAT £117
Net £583
Compare that to the EUR 577 which Google is currently giving as £486.

Which gives dealer profit of £583 - £486 = £97, less all the other costs I mentioned above.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

On the subject if Vat. If the dealer is Vat registered surely he can claim back the Vat paid on the import. Therefore to calculate the "margin" excluding exchange rates it should be.

Base price less German Vat.
Then add on "margin"
Onto the total add uk Vat

Then when doing his Vat return he can offset the German Vat against his Vat bill.

Or have I missed something??

Its one of the MANY benefits of being in the EU, currently trade to trade customers (both have to have valid VAT numbers in their host country) don't charge each other VAT. So all invoices coming from Bosch, or KTM for instance to UK business are VAT free. It saves the business paying VAT and then claiming it back. It also means that all stock held is essentially 20% less at cost, as you only pay the VAT when you sell it.

Its a great benefit of being in the EU, that many people don't appreciate or understand.

If we leave we'll loose this, and also there will be tarrifs added to all these prices and the costs of also customs and handling added to everything, as it currently is with imports from outside the EU, its going to be a nightmare, and a costly one.

 

[Crockers]

Missed loads I'm afraid.

UK VAT registered dealer dealer doesn't pay German VAT. They have to account for UK VAT on their purchase from Bosch under the 'Reverse charge' procedure. Not going to explain all that, Google it if you want to, but basically you can ignore it for the purposes of working out their profit.

If you want to look at the dealer margin compare:-

Sales price £700
Less UK VAT £117
Net £583
Compare that to the EUR 577 which Google is currently giving as £486.

Which gives dealer profit of £583 - £486 = £97, less all the other costs I mentioned above.

Thanks for putting me right. Just one observation...if he doesn't have to pay German VAT where did you get the 577 euros from? That included Vat plus you've added uk VAT on top of the German Vat

Thank God I'm not an accountant..lol

 

[Wander]

Thanks for putting me right. Just one observation...if he doesn't have to pay German VAT where did you get the 577 euros from? That included Vat l

No it didn't, have another look, the VAT (Output Tax) is shown as 0.00.

plus you've added uk VAT on top of the German Vat

No I haven't!

 

[Crockers]

No it didn't, have another look, the VAT (Output Tax) is shown as 0.00.

No I haven't!

Sorry

I misread the €72 surcharge as the VAT....my mistake.


Grovels. ....

 

[anotherkiwi]

I can't find it any more but a Dutch online shop was selling 17 Ah (612 W) HL cased Samsung celled 36 V batteries for 599€. All tax included.

There you see the real difference between perceived value (Bosch) and real value of a battery pack.

 

[Kudoscycles]

If you really want to get the violins out.....
Buying e-bikes from China,30% up front,70% against bill of lading,usually in US dollars(current awful exchange rate),3 months production>6 weeks shipping.
On non EU imports the vat man wants 26% at point of import on e-bikes,thats 20% vat and 6% duty. Ok you claim the vat back at the next vat return,but that can be 4 months forward from the date of import,the duty is lost.
Thats a long time that the money is out of use.
Still think that e-bike importers are making a fortune,they are a cash flow nightmare.
There is nothing like having a go yourselves for perception to become reality,come and join us.
There are a lot of one-timers out of China,the chinese have a not too complimentary word for them,these guys do the basic calculations,ignore all the add on costs,import a 20ft trial container,realise its not that easy and finally lose money selling them on ebay,never to be seen again.
KudosDave

 

[Yamdude]

Any Ebike i would be interested in buying, i would always check out the cost of a replacement battery first before buying the bike. The Bosch batteries seem well overpriced to me, so that would stop me ever buying a Bosch powered bike..... unless these batteries could ever be re-celled from somewhere like Insat.

 

[SRS]

You don't haggle in Tesco and they're making a lot more margin and a lot more profit!

wanna bet if i got 200 quids worth in the trolley ill call for a manager and if no discount will walk out and leave the lot there.

So what discount do you offer your boss when he pays you?
Presumably the more hours he employs you, the more discount he gets.

 

[Denis99]

I bought a 500w Bosch battery recently, it was £700.

I thought I would buy it from my local ebike shop, thus supporting the bricks and mortar shop.
These guys need to earn a living, and working in or running a bike shop is not the easiest way to make a profit.

The local bike shop support is a good thing, always there for help and support.

 

[Crockers]

If you really want to get the violins out.....
Buying e-bikes from China,30% up front,70% against bill of lading,usually in US dollars(current awful exchange rate),3 months production>6 weeks shipping.
On non EU imports the vat man wants 26% at point of import on e-bikes,thats 20% vat and 6% duty. Ok you claim the vat back at the next vat return,but that can be 4 months forward from the date of import,the duty is lost.
Thats a long time that the money is out of use.
Still think that e-bike importers are making a fortune,they are a cash flow nightmare.
There is nothing like having a go yourselves for perception to become reality,come and join us.
There are a lot of one-timers out of China,the chinese have a not too complimentary word for them,these guys do the basic calculations,ignore all the add on costs,import a 20ft trial container,realise its not that easy and finally lose money selling them on ebay,never to be seen again.
KudosDave

Dave

I thought customs duty of 6% is applied first, then VAT is added to the total. If so that's a shade over 26%. A bit like petrol. Fuel duty is added then the whole lot has VAT applied.

Using the customs website it appears this duty and then VAT is also added to transport costs and transit insurance.

http://www.dutycalculator.com/new-import-duty-and-tax-calculation/saved_calculations/view_details/205858143/

 

[soundwave]

thing is if you bought one from pcg or any other German shop the price is 650 quid.

and there still making money on that i dont see as we are in the uk the price is even higher and its the same with the bikes.

b4 the pound went down you could of saved hundreds on a bike if bought dir from Germany.

even if you can get 50 quid of the 700 rrp then its wort trying to haggle the price down they have room to still make money