Cyclist jumps red light & very severely injures pedestrian - fined only £800

[10mph]

Cyclist who left solicitor brain-damaged fined £850 | The Times

Horrific damage caused by a cyclist jumping a red light at 26 mph and ordering pedestrians to get out of the way.

What is the e-bike angle, apart from please be careful and wait at stupid red lights, and give way to pedestrians? I was surprised that the maximum the magistrate could fine was only £1000. Would this also apply to the rider of a legal ebike doing the same thing? I guess all bets off if your ebike is illegal. It would be a motor vehicle and hopefully a prison sentence would be a possibility.

 

[Cakey]

Like anything, obey the rules of the road. If the cyclist jumped the lights he was breaking the law.
It's irrelevant what somebody rides . Idiots come in all sorts of guises.

 

[eddieo]

No difference. A legal e bike same as a normal bike under the law, so outcome would have been the same I guess....

 

[amigafan2003]

I guess all bets off if your ebike is illegal. It would be a motor vehicle and hopefully a prison sentence would be a possibility.

I doubt it. I worked out the average fine for driving without insurance and tax - it's a whopping - wait for it - £375 and 6 penalty points. As for the injury attracting a prison sentance you're kidding right? Even GBH (i.e. actual intended inflicted harm) only attracts community service now - the prisons are to full. Also, as the injury would be the result of negligence, rather than intent, the courts would see it as a civil issue - i.e. the injured person would have to sue privately to seek recompense.

Interestingly enough I cannot find a single court case for a fine involving driving an unregistered motor vehicle.

Our government doesn't really care about uninsured/unregistered vehicles and as they are slashing police numbers enforcement will be going out the window.

They do care about collecting tax revenue though - that's why not having car tax has all kinds of automated systems to catch you

 

[Mussels]

I'm not surprised that the fine was limited, I wouldn't expect a car driver to get any more. The pedestrian shouldn't have been attempting to cross there anyway, it's dangerous enough cycling across that junction. The pedestrian is also a compensation lawyer so I don't trust a thing he says especially about the extent of his injuries. I also wonder how close the red light (if he really did jump the light, that seems vague) and the pedestrian were, they may have been far enough apart to not be very relevant.
The cyclist shouldn't have jumped the red light and shouted at the pedestrians, jumping red lights is common and shouting at pedestrians is common but don't do both together.

 

[amigafan2003]

jumping red lights is common and

You may find this very odd coming from me with me being the wreckless law breaker et all but I'd really like to see red light jumping cracked down on. I can, hand on heart, say I have never purposely jumped a red light either in my car or on my bike. Ebike riders have even less of an excuse for jumping red lights as we don't have to expend as much effort getting back up to speed as normal cyclists do.

 

[Mussels]

You may find this very odd coming from me with me being the wreckless law breaker et all but I'd really like to see red light jumping cracked down on. I can, hand on heart, say I have never purposely jumped a red light either in my car or on my bike. Ebike riders have even less of an excuse for jumping red lights as we don't have to expend as much effort getting back up to speed as normal cyclists do.

Do you ride in London?

 

[Mussels]

Do you ride in London?

That looks a bit confrontational, it shouldn't be.

There are many sets of traffic lights that it is silly to wait for, they are either dangerous (which may or may not apply to Holborn) or they are on demand lights that do not change for cyclists. Add poorly designed lights for roadworks and it's easy to come to the conclusion that traffic lights are for guidance and you'd be stupid to obey them blindly.
Like most cyclists in London I wait for most traffic lights, there are a few who routinely ride across pelican crossings when the lights are red and people are crossing or those that ride across busy junctions when the lights are red and it's clearly not safe. Those people frequently get stopped by the police so cycling in London is not the unregulated mayhem many people think it is.
Pedestrians wandering into the road without looking is a far more frequent than cyclists putting pedestrians in danger, I frequently have high speed near misses like this.

 

[tillson]

I doubt it. I worked out the average fine for driving without insurance and tax - it's a whopping - wait for it - £375 and 6 penalty points. As for the injury attracting a prison sentance you're kidding right? Even GBH (i.e. actual intended inflicted harm) only attracts community service now - the prisons are to full. Also, as the injury would be the result of negligence, rather than intent, the courts would see it as a civil issue - i.e. the injured person would have to sue privately to seek recompense.

Interestingly enough I cannot find a single court case for a fine involving driving an unregistered motor vehicle.

Our government doesn't really care about uninsured/unregistered vehicles and as they are slashing police numbers enforcement will be going out the window.

They do care about collecting tax revenue though - that's why not having car tax has all kinds of automated systems to catch you

I think that in general terms, everything you say here is correct. However, there seems to be a sort of, "novelty factor" applied to sentencing. If an offence is new, or there isn't much previous history of it happening, the courts tend to be harsh, but as the offence becomes more prevalent, it's as though they give up and resort to leniency.

A couple of years ago, when flying at night, we were quite badly dazzled by a youth shining a laser beam at us from his bedroom window. We traced him and he went to prison for six months with hardly any previous criminal history. As laser pens have become more popular, so has the frequency of endangering aircraft. Today, it is rare that they get a fine that will even hurt them.

I think with the first ebike related offence of any seriousness, the rider can get ready to have the proverbial book thrown at them. Penalties will then probably reduce, if and when offences become more common.

I read about a case recently where a person who had been shining lasers at aircraft was released from court with nothing more than being told that he was a very naughty boy. Two weeks later, he burnt to death trapped inside an inverted stolen car which he had crashed through a hedge and into a field. Perhaps a harsh sentence and a bit of 1950's style basic military training might have saved his life.

 

[smudger1956]

That looks a bit confrontational, it shouldn't be.

There are many sets of traffic lights that it is silly to wait for, they are either dangerous (which may or may not apply to Holborn) or they are on demand lights that do not change for cyclists. Add poorly designed lights for roadworks and it's easy to come to the conclusion that traffic lights are for guidance and you'd be stupid to obey them blindly.
Like most cyclists in London I wait for most traffic lights, there are a few who routinely ride across pelican crossings when the lights are red and people are crossing or those that ride across busy junctions when the lights are red and it's clearly not safe. Those people frequently get stopped by the police so cycling in London is not the unregulated mayhem many people think it is.
Pedestrians wandering into the road without looking is a far more frequent than cyclists putting pedestrians in danger, I frequently have high speed near misses like this.

I have been into Central London 5 times in the last 2 months, 3 on the train, 2 in a vehicle, it does look to me like unregulated cyclist mayhem, I even witnessed a Kamikaze Lycra traffic weaver run out of talent when he rear ended a van.
The amount of Red light jumping and near misses I saw was quite staggering, some I can attribute to pedestrians not looking.
I would exercise extreme caution while the Olympics are on with regard to violating road traffic laws.

 

[eddieo]

Yes the "Kamikaze Lycra traffic weaver " will ruin it for all cyclists..... have come across a few that I would happily murder there and then, if I could catch them.

 

[amigafan2003]

Yes the "Kamikaze Lycra traffic weaver " will ruin it for all cyclists..... have come across a few that I would happily murder there and then, if I could catch them.

You need a faster ebike

 

[flecc]

I would exercise extreme caution while the Olympics are on with regard to violating road traffic laws.

Yes, they are policing it with guided missiles apparently.

 

[jerrysimon]

One account of a cycling abuse/recklessness. No doubt will be jumped on by the cycling hater brigade.
Imagine if every quivalent car incident was publicised.

Its strange in Cambridge there is a lobby of anti car hater cyclists and anti cyclist hating car drivers.

All that is required is a little tolerance on both sides.

Which leaves the pedestrians I guess ?

Regards

Jerry

 

[Scimitar]

Thankfully, there are no traffic lights within 20 miles of me, but back when I used to encounter them frequently I would dismount, sprint (that goes to show how long ago it was) across the junction on foot and hop on the bike at the other side. Time it right and the loss of time is minimal.

 

[cwah]

I'm very often surprised by the carefulness both from cyclist and pedestrian.

I've already had a clash with a pedestrian that jumped to my bike, and today I've seen a cyclist jumping from the sidewalk to the road just in front of me, without looking!! Almost had an accident. Damn it! And then the same guy went again to the sidewalk when he saw a red light...

I maybe have a faster bike than most cyclist, but a lot of them are actually cycling faster than me when they try to sneak their way at every opportunity to go faster.

And I understand why all trucks now have a warning cyclist sign!! So many of them try to sneak their way from any potential gap!!

 

[Mussels]

You need a faster ebike

Or bigger balls.

Cyclist fitting through every gap is pretty much encouraged in London, it's usually easy to see when it's not safe. It may look like mayhem in London but often it's very well choreographed and efficient.

 

[amigafan2003]

Thankfully, there are no traffic lights within 20 miles of me, but back when I used to encounter them frequently I would dismount, sprint (that goes to show how long ago it was) across the junction on foot and hop on the bike at the other side. Time it right and the loss of time is minimal.

+1

There is a set of traffic lights on my commute where I turn left into a side road that stays on red for a long time. I regularly ride up to the white line, dismount, push my bike on the pavement and remount on the road round the corner - entirely legal and within the highway code I see a few cyclists just ignore the red light totally though - one going so far as to shout at me when I stopped at the lights!

Another one of the lights on my route has a small marked "filter" cycle lane going from the road up onto the pavement allowing a cyclist to cut the lights and if turning right you can use the toucan crossing.

The last set of lights (no Google link - it's about 4 years out of date!) has toucan crossings as well - although I have had motorists shout at me for using the crossing - I can't be bothered explaining what a toucan crossing is so I just ignore them - I'm on the car free cycle promenade route by then so no risk of any angry driver comeback.

 

[OxygenJames]

You may find this very odd coming from me with me being the wreckless law breaker et all but I'd really like to see red light jumping cracked down on. I can, hand on heart, say I have never purposely jumped a red light either in my car or on my bike. Ebike riders have even less of an excuse for jumping red lights as we don't have to expend as much effort getting back up to speed as normal cyclists do.

You obviously dont live around here where there's a set of lights every 200 yards - no cyclist in their right mind stops at a red light round this part of London! - as neither do the pedestrians - we all manage just fine with this arrangement - you just pick your moment and its all fine - one or two people who like to see themselves as policing the universe get upset but never in my experience at anything dangerous - just their unquestioned blind compliance with the law. If its safe - I jump the light just like everybody else - its all about awareness - if you have it and you're watching whats going on then fine - and I always make sure nobody else - be it a pedestrian or otherwise ever has to slow down because of what I'm up to - and thats what most others do.

If on the other hand you're piling through reds at 26 shouting at people - well you deserve all you get.

 

[OxygenJames]

Or bigger balls.

Cyclist fitting through every gap is pretty much encouraged in London, it's usually easy to see when it's not safe. It may look like mayhem in London but often it's very well choreographed and efficient.

I once motorcycled through the centre of Chennai (in India) - it was a wonderful dance - quite crazy by UK standards and you really had to watch what you were doing - but somehow most of the time everybody got through with no accidents - but you really did have to be aware - its the lack of awareness that kills people usually.