Cyclist jumps red light & very severely injures pedestrian - fined only £800

[smudger1956]

You obviously dont live around here where there's a set of lights every 200 yards - no cyclist in their right mind stops at a red light round this part of London! - as neither do the pedestrians - we all manage just fine with this arrangement - you just pick your moment and its all fine - one or two people who like to see themselves as policing the universe get upset but never in my experience at anything dangerous - just their unquestioned blind compliance with the law. If its safe - I jump the light just like everybody else - its all about awareness - if you have it and you're watching whats going on then fine - and I always make sure nobody else - be it a pedestrian or otherwise ever has to slow down because of what I'm up to - and thats what most others do.

If on the other hand you're piling through reds at 26 shouting at people - well you deserve all you get.

With the high state of security awareness (some say paranoia) because of the Olympic Games, I will reiterate from my previous post in this thread.
I would exercise extreme caution while the Olympics are on with regard to violating road traffic laws.
If you are travelling along any route that leads to an event, you may find ‘Red light Jumping’ carries an additional definition to ‘failure to stop at a traffic signal’.
Security threat is the easiest definition to use, I would not want to be a cyclist jumping a Red light, especially with a backpack on…enough said….

 

[mike killay]

You obviously dont live around here where there's a set of lights every 200 yards - no cyclist in their right mind stops at a red light round this part of London! - as neither do the pedestrians - we all manage just fine with this arrangement - you just pick your moment and its all fine - one or two people who like to see themselves as policing the universe get upset but never in my experience at anything dangerous - just their unquestioned blind compliance with the law. If its safe - I jump the light just like everybody else - its all about awareness - if you have it and you're watching whats going on then fine - and I always make sure nobody else - be it a pedestrian or otherwise ever has to slow down because of what I'm up to - and thats what most others do.

If on the other hand you're piling through reds at 26 shouting at people - well you deserve all you get.

But why do you jump red lights?
There is no need and all you do is p+ss motorists off. Cyclists in general are trying to gain more respect from drivers and as far as I can see, all this lawlessness defeats our case.
Apparently it is a World wide problem and I for one just do not understand what all the rush is about.

 

[flecc]

I never jump a red light in the conventional sense Mike, but there's one set of lights where all the surrounding circumstances makes it lethal for a cyclist to wait for green. There I take off as the pedestrian lights change to red and a second or two before the lights change to green. I also always cycle to the front there via a pavement and a pedestrian crossing, so two or more laws broken.

The circumstances are far too complicated to explain at length, but it really is the only possibility to avoid being in an accident sooner rather than later in the traffic lights Grand Prix at that point. It's also why a bike is rarely seen on that particular route, which for me is unavoidable.

This illustrates the deficiency of blanket laws which cannot taking all circumstances into account.

 

[OxygenJames]

I never jump a red light in the conventional sense Mike, but there's one set of lights where all the surrounding circumstances makes it lethal for a cyclist to wait for green. There I take off as the pedestrian lights change to red and a second or two before the lights change to green. I also always cycle to the front there via a pavement and a pedestrian crossing, so two or more laws broken.

The circumstances are far too complicated to explain at length, but it really is the only possibility to avoid being in an accident sooner rather than later in the traffic lights Grand Prix at that point. It's also why a bike is rarely seen on that particular route, which for me is unavoidable.

This illustrates the deficiency of blanket laws which cannot taking all circumstances into account.

I like the system in California where you're allowed to turn right on a red providing nothing is coming and there's no pedestrians (remember they drive on the opposite side so the equilivant would be us being allowed to turn left with the same provisos).

And a big yes to what you say about blanket rules - they never quite work all the time do they. Even our latest 'blanket rule' Higgs-boson fails to explain gravity or Einsteins General theory of relativity.....

Its still raining in Wimbledon - that roofs going to be on.

 

[OxygenJames]

But why do you jump red lights?
There is no need and all you do is p+ss motorists off. Cyclists in general are trying to gain more respect from drivers and as far as I can see, all this lawlessness defeats our case.
Apparently it is a World wide problem and I for one just do not understand what all the rush is about.

Why do I jump the lights? Because the other ten cyclists 'waiting' do too - and why do they? Because there's nothing coming, there are no pedeatrians and the lights remain on red only because we dont have the technology that detects that and can respond.

Mike are you saying at 3am at a deserted set of lights you wouldn't jump them? At 3am when there's nothing around? Come on. if its safe why not? What are laws for - there to be kept no matter what or are they supposed to be there to serve us? Bottom line laws are there to serve us - well thats how I see it anyway.

 

[mike killay]

OJ
You raise a number of points.
1 At 3am, a bike has insufficient mass to operate the lights, so arguably it is not illegal to jump them because they are not truly 'Automatic Traffic signals'
2 Not knowing your particular junction, I cannot comment, but if as you say it is so dangerous to comply with the law, you have a valid point.
3 To denigrate the law because 'there is nothing about' is not a good argument. If you hold to that view, you can only do so from a cycling perspective provided motor vehicles continue to observe the law. Otherwise, if motorists take a similar view to you and drive over the redlights, accidents will occur.
4 I ride on the pavements when safe, as do many cyclists in Swansea. You even see them riding on the pavements in the city centre and no-one cares. Part of the problem is that the Council forgot to provide cycle ways when they re-vamped the city centre at enormous cost in order to accomodate the bendy buses. However, we do have the Paul Boateng memo to fall back on.

 

[OxygenJames]

OJ
You raise a number of points.
1 At 3am, a bike has insufficient mass to operate the lights, so arguably it is not illegal to jump them because they are not truly 'Automatic Traffic signals'
2 Not knowing your particular junction, I cannot comment, but if as you say it is so dangerous to comply with the law, you have a valid point.
3 To denigrate the law because 'there is nothing about' is not a good argument. If you hold to that view, you can only do so from a cycling perspective provided motor vehicles continue to observe the law. Otherwise, if motorists take a similar view to you and drive over the redlights, accidents will occur.
4 I ride on the pavements when safe, as do many cyclists in Swansea. You even see them riding on the pavements in the city centre and no-one cares. Part of the problem is that the Council forgot to provide cycle ways when they re-vamped the city centre at enormous cost in order to accomodate the bendy buses. However, we do have the Paul Boateng memo to fall back on.

Hey Mike.

I think bottom line is that you can't reply on 'laws' or rules to guide your behaviour - not unless you get absolutely every other person in the universe to abide by them - even at green lights I check to make sure nobody the other way is jumping the lights - I learned this staying alive riding a motorcycle for the last 30 years - even to the point of assuming the person in front is about to do something completely stupid.

You need to stay alert - all the time. Don't fall into the trap of feeling safe just because you're abiding by the rules - many don't. This I find is a better philosophy to keep you safe and happy than any other.

btw - Its still raining - that roof is going to be on if it stays like this.