Cycling on pavements

[mercman696]

As a very keen E-cyclist i am very frustrated at the lack of action over cycle lanes from my county council - West Sussex.

I recently went to Newbury where i was delighted to see that they have opened up the pavements to cyclists. It was a joy to move bike around knowing that i was protected from the traffic by kerbs. There are signs at narrow pavements that instruct cyclists to "walk from this point" until the pavements widen out again. Cyclists are told to cycle with care and awareness for walkers. Parents are told to hold the hands of their young children. It all seems to work.

The genius of the scheme is that it costs very little and solves at a stroke the problem of building cycle lanes < or lack of >. According to locals there is no increased incidence of accidents between cyclists and pedestrians but a large drop in accidents between cyclists and vehicles.

Do any of you know of any other towns who have adopted such a visionary scheme? If not lets get on with it !

cheers

 

[JohnInStockie]

I think its 'horses for courses' or something similar but with a cycling term. Where I live the council have taken a number of steps to move cyclists away from the road, and in my view its a mistake.

I want to get to work and back again. After I have done this trip about 30 times then it really doesnt hold anything for me (I doubt it ever did). All the 'on pavement' labe stop suddenly and pointlessly at just about every road junction you can imagine, some of them ridiculously small, maybe only 10 feet long, if I was to use these lanes, it would take considerably longer to get to work, which means I would drive.

The issue we have in my view, isnt lack of on pavement lanes, or off road lanes. But a lack of a proper road traffic policy that caters for all forms of transport evenly. Our roads only cater for cars, and bikes are treated almost like road kill by some drivers.

Every road wide enough, should have an on road lane for people going to work.

IMHO

 

[Ian]

In Leicestershire there are a number of "dual use" pavements, some with a white dividing line, some without., normal pavements are not legally open to cyclists though. Personally I don't like cycling on pavements, including some of the dual use ones because pedistrians tend to walk unpredictably and take up all of the pavement including the cycle half meaning that cyclists are constantly slowing down because of pedestrians. At least on the road we can go as fast as we like.

 

[flecc]

My experience and circumstances are just like Ian's, the same disadvantages.

It could be that if all pavements are open to careful cycling and there are a fair number of cyclists, pedestrians would become so used to them being ever present that they might be more disciplined. A bit like the way car drivers in Holland allow for the ever present cyclists.
.

 

[DBCohen]

My experience and circumstances are just like Ian's, the same disadvantages.

It could be that if all pavements are open to careful cycling and there are a fair number of cyclists, pedestrians would become so used to them being ever present that they might be more disciplined. A bit like the way car drivers in Holland allow for the ever present cyclists.
.

Flecc, in my (admittedly limited) experience, many many cyclists in Manchester are there own worst enemies, whether on the roads or the pavements.

I can honestly say that at least 20% of my 'hard brake to avoid collision' incidents are other cyclist who don't look over their shoulder before pulling out from a cycle lane to avoid an obstruction, or who are cycling on the pavement and suddenly swerve out on to the road.

Often, I am ringing my bell like mad as I anticipate what they are just about to do - they appear as deaf as posts (so much so I am considering bying a horn!). Now that the nights are drawing in, cycle lighting seems to be an optional fashion accessory, and the clothing de rigeur seems to be black trousers, black top and a black rucksack slung over for good measure.

The though of many of these yahoos sharing the pavements makes m y blood run cold. Unfortunately, I feel the lack of social and civic responsibility permeating this society makes this a non starter here.

David.

 

[BossBob]

We have a fair bit of cycle paths and split pavements, and I prefer to be on the road, and am most of the time. Large roundabouts on major roads are the only real hazard.

I have often wondered to myself as I cycle along the road adjacent to a split pavement marked out for cyclists ...... can I be done?
Am I breaking some EU directive?

Rab

 

[flecc]

David,

I agree that seems an impossible situation, and we have a few irresponsible types, though seemingly less of them.

We have plenty of shared use paths and pedestrians are the main problem through wandering over the marked cycling areas and sometimes stubbornly refusing to move. On the whole I can honestly say the cyclists using the shared paths aren't a problem, and on the longest one along Kent Gate Way, I always seem to be the fastest cyclist.

However, on the narrower fully shared and unmarked sections, I slow down to about walking pace past walkers and say an excuse me in a greeting form usually. When they stop and move aside I usually say "thank you, sorry to have disturbed you" and it always gets a good response.

I have sympathy with what John has said about having to stop at numerous junctions when riding off road, it's infuriating when trying to get somewhere as in commuting.
.

 

[flecc]

We have a fair bit of cycle paths and split pavements, and I prefer to be on the road, and am most of the time. Large roundabouts on major roads are the only real hazard.

I have often wondered to myself as I cycle along the road adjacent to a split pavement marked out for cyclists ...... can I be done?
Am I breaking some EU directive?

Rab

It seems a vague situation Rab, and there have been prosecutions by the police on various grounds like obstruction.

Widely done though, and prosecutions have usually only followed clear cases of holding up other traffic.
.

 

[ITSPETEINIT]

Cyclists Choice

We have a fair bit of cycle paths and split pavements, and I prefer to be on the road, and am most of the time. Large roundabouts on major roads are the only real hazard.

I have often wondered to myself as I cycle along the road adjacent to a split pavement marked out for cyclists ...... can I be done?
Am I breaking some EU directive?

Rab

The CTC did much lobbying to get the Min of Tpt (whatever it's called now) to rephrase the "rules" for cycling on roads where cycle paths had been provided.
They (Min of Tpt) wanted the new Highway Code to make it compulsory for cyclists to use Cycle Paths where they had been provided. The arguments were long and hard but culminated in a published Highway Code that recommended that Cyclists should use Cycle Paths where provided.

 

[coops]

I agree with John, Ian & flecc re dual use paths.

The lack of numbers of cyclists on shared paths can make some pedestrians unaware they areshared (I've done it! ) and so walk randomly, using the whole path width - not ideal for ease or speed of progress, especially at ebike speeds.

Even some on-road cycle lanes in Manchester appear to abruptly stop and either disappear entirely or require you to manoeuvre in an annoying and unnecessarily delaying way defying logic and all normal rules of traffic flow... and thats when they're not being used as a parking lane! On principle I don't use on-road cycle lanes unless I can see it is clear of parked vehicles.

I think the move towards more 'open-plan' sharing of road space for all, used in Europe and being tried here, maybe accompanied by reduced speed limits, might be a better overall solution - forcing drivers to be more careful and considerate towards pedestrians & cyclists and hence reduce speed, rather than the current reliance on 'compartmentalizing' areas for different uses. Anyone else have a view on these schemes? I really think they could go a long way to creating a more relaxed & good-natured transport system, with much more consideration towards other travellers - reducing drivers' sense that they are isolated in 'bubbles' from other road users and that the road is theirs - both of which are major contributory factors to stress and road-rage - it may slow down cars a bit, but would improve the driving experience for many I'm sure.

Another reason I see 'dividing up' road space as impractical is the resultant problem that arises if a new form of transport comesalong which doesn't 'fit' into any current 'speed lane', e.g. sometimes ebikes don't fit well with either pedestrians or bikes. There's a limit to how far dividing the road up can be taken. Not a big problem for planners or authorities though, since both bikes and ebikes seem destined to remain very much minority road users.

 

[flecc]

Not a big problem for planners or authorities though, since both bikes and ebikes seem destined to remain very much minority road users.

Congestion Charging works wonders though Stuart, parts of Central London swarm with bikes at times now.
.

 

[coops]

Thats good news flecc, I'll keep you posted how it works in Manchester... if I'm still here if & when they do .

 

[JohnInStockie]

I doubt its likely to happen in my lifetime. I know that the 'road' Hummer has been launched in the UK, it has a 2.9 diesel engine, but is still probably about 7' wide and weighs 2.5 tons.

Additionally it is predicted that the number of 4x4's will go up by 10% in the next 5 years, its the fastest growing sector of the car market at the mo, and mostly due to Toyota's RAV 4 being a great leasing option for corporates.

Thank the lord we dont have a climate problem! D'oh!

Whilst all thats going on, then its far more likely that planners (or thicko's as I prefer) that have been given a budget and have just renegotiated good rates with their road laying contractors, will design roads to combat the 'traffic problem' and merely relegate bikers to pavements and unmaintained cycle tracks.

Expensive these green lanes and initiatives....

 

[coops]

Thank the lord we dont have a climate problem! D'oh!

(Rant warning - apologies if OT!)

You just reminded me John, of how much I can't stand the apparent illogical and incomprehensible response of some - especially the 'media' - to issues like this, even when they are given almost daily coverage in the very same news! A world gone mad, seemingly!

I mean responses like we get during hot weather in summer ('isn't it glorious!'), when the same weather is most likely due to global warming, and one step from being fatal for many in heatwaves; then no sooner is invasion of privacy eschewed as morally wrong than 'big brother' type programmes take peak viewing ratings, and lastly we're told how obesity is a growing epidemic due to diet & exercise imbalance and reports recommend (among other things) that towns should be designed to encourage greater activity/exercise and yet something as simple and effective as provision for cycling is overlooked in favour of schemes like personal rapid transport or 'PRT' (sounds uncannily like something else which recurs periodically... and is probably equally rationally understandable ) which will cost far more and benefit no-one in terms of personal exercise! I just don't get it!

There was an 'easy glider' (not the bike) on the gadget show the other night, another impractical looking 'personal transport solution' which, like a segway, we were told "its so easy, you just have to stand & steer, it does all the work for you...". Now how does that help, exactly?! (rant over...)

It was being used on the pavement, however, so I'm back on topic now apologies!

Stuart.

 

[flecc]

Ah but the motor industry is doing it's bit for cycling John.

Some cars now have built in rack facilities on the back for carrying bikes.

It's their latest green initiative.
.

 

[halfmedley]

I live in what I reckon to be the least bike friendly city in the country (Birmingham) where a 'cycle lane' can be just be a blue sign on a lamp-post, and have no option but to go on the pavement sometimes. However, having followed many police cyclists doing exactly the same I regard it as acceptable as long as one rides sensibly. Just watch out for ipod wearing pedestrians!

 

[hawkwind]

One of the problems with cycle lanes around our area is the planning.

A few years ago, the winding main road from our village was replaced with a straight road, approximately 1 1/4 miles.
We were told that there would be a cycle lane would be built, and away from traffic from the new road, great stuff as the local council were continually boasting as our area going to be encouraging us to use the bicycle and they were investing heavily in this project.

So when the work is finished, the cycle lane is actually part of the old road, which entails crossing the main road 3 times in this 1 1/4 mile stretch, one of which, is where traffic comes hurtling over the brow of an incline at 60 miles an hour.

When coming back into the village, where the cycle lane runs alongside the road, the lane is full of drains below the surface of the road which give a heavy bump if you go over them.

If anyone cycles along this stretch, NOBODY uses the cycle lane, instead we all use the road as it is far less hazardous than using the cycle lanes.

There is a vast area of grass/weed/etc that runs alongside the road for the full length of the road.
Surely any planner should have been able to see from the plan view of the project that it would have been far easier and safer to have put the cycle lane on this part of the area, giving us a straight and safe place to cycle away from the traffic???

At the moment, they seem obsessed with widening the pavements, thus narrowing the road, and then putting a cycle lane on this narrowing road when it could have been incorporated into the widening pavements.
Why the pavements need to be so wide in little used walking areas seems to baffle everyone, apart from the planners.

Another obsession is speed bumps.
The ever narrowing roads are growing with them.
They even seem fit to incorporate the speed bumps into the cycle lanes.

Another recent one in a town about 8 miles from us, they widened the pavement for the pedestrians and built a cycle lane on each side of the road.

In their wisdom, they seemed to overlook the fact that the householders park their cars outside their houses, thus they are now parked on the cycle lane, and as the road is now narrower, there is only room for one car at a time to drive down the road, if you want to use your bicycle along this stretch of road then you take your life into your own hands. GENIUS !!!!

 

[Brangdon]

I generally use a dual-use track on my commute, but I agree about the drawbacks.

You lose right of way at junctions. In general I feel like a 3rd class citizen; cars treat me like a pedestrian rather than as a vehicle because I'm on the pavement.

The track is only on one side of the road, so you sometimes have to cross two lanes of traffic to join or leave it. Also, the track ends too early, just a few yards from the industrial estate where I work.

The track is shared with pedestrians. My local pedestrians seem to be training as ninjas. They wear dark clothing with no lights or reflective strips, and become all but invisible at night. They don't pay much attention to what's going on around them because they think the pavement is safe. By default they take up all the width of the pavement. When they do move aside, the track is so narrow that there is not a lot of room for error when passing them.

The upshot is that you have to work a lot harder. The benefit is that most problems can be solved by slowing down and/or waiting, and if there is a collision it's less likely to be serious.

 

[flecc]

The upshot is that you have to work a lot harder. The benefit is that most problems can be solved by slowing down and/or waiting, and if there is a collision it's less likely to be serious.

This is where those of us riding e-bikes win. Slowing right down to a walking pace as I pass pedestrians is no bother with motor assistance to help speed recovery.

Likewise, having to stop to cross roads at intersections is made easier when the motor's there to help accelerate back up to speed.

It's the unpowered cyclists who mainly have the raw deal, their rides made very much more difficult and tiring with their cycling rhythm constantly upset. Little wonder so many them don't use the cycle lanes and dual use paths.
.

 

[JohnInStockie]

Cycling Etiquette - On pavements?

Seeing as the thread is called cycling on pavements, how do forum members feel about doing this?

On my commute home each weekday, I find large sections of road with very heavy and congested traffic. Whilst I ty to cycle on the road where I can, often the cars are within the yellow lines of the kerb through some fear of being in the middle of the carriageway. In these situations, my options are to stop and wait for the car to proceed, and hope the driver will be considerate and move into the middle a little, or to hop on the pavement (providing there are no peds) and circumvent the said obstuction.

A road-racing colleague said that he always goes 'straight down the middle' and overtakes all the cars, but I find this to be a little hairy when the traffic starts moving again.

What should I do?