Cycling on pavements

[flecc]

I do something similar John, When I come up to a parked car and I see in the mirror that a car approaching from behind is going to arrive at the same time as me, I use the pavement cutaways to pass the parked car on the pavement side to help the passing motorist.

However, I operate a self imposed rule to never do that if there's pedestrians on that section of pavement, even where there's space, as it can still cause alarm to some.

I agree with your colleague, and where I have to use the road in those circumstances, I always take a dominant position right in the centre of the lane and control the traffic behind. My rights are equal to those of any other road user, and I won't place myself in harms way just to suit those motorists who think they own the roads. After all, they have to slow down when it's a milk float or tractor in the way.
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[JohnInStockie]

Sorry Flecc, I think you misunderstand, he doesnt take the middle of the lane, he goes down the middle of the road (on the dotted lines), overtaking everything.

 

[flecc]

Sorry, I see what you mean now, when everything's stopped.

I always did that on motorbikes since I wouldn't be holding anyone up later, but on the e-bike I usually filter along on the nearside if there's space, and always if it's a cycle lane, jumping onto an empty pavement momentarily where cars block the way as you do.

Where it's a junction approach and there's space on the nearside, sometimes with use of the odd pavement bit, I'll often filter to the front of the queue as we often have reserved cycle space there anyway.
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[Ian]

I see a lot of cyclists and motorcyclists doing that at high speed. Too risky for me though, too much chance of a pedestrian stepping from between cars or a driver attempting a right or U turn without warning.

 

[flecc]

I see a lot of cyclists and motorcyclists doing that at high speed. Too risky for me though, too much chance of a pedestrian stepping from between cars or a driver attempting a right or U turn without warning.

Yes, really dangerous at speed as some bikers do it. As said above, I always did it on motorbikes, but not fast, well clear of the cars if there was room, and watching the left all the time.
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[frank9755]

I do all of the above, many times a day on my commute.

Mostly I try to go down the inside, especially if there is a cycle lane. I do take care to avoid left-turning vehicles, having once been inches from being knocked off by a white van doing a no-indicator left turn on impulse. When the traffic starts moving I always tuck in behind the nearest car rather than risk further overtaking.

If the left is blocked I go down the middle. Main risks there are motorbikes coming up quickly behind, motorbikes or othe bikes coming out into the middle in front of me without looking, traffic starting to move making me have to accelerate very quickly and of course on-coming traffic!

As a last resort I'll use the pavement if it's clear. I have been stopped by the police for doing this so I generally try to avoid where another alternative exists. I was stopped in Parliament Square by a policeman on a bike who explained that cyclists on pavements was the main thing that taxi and van drivers complained about. We then had a discussion covering who should be setting the policing agenda for Central London and other related topics, until the lights changed and he let me off!

Frank

 

[Ian]

a policeman on a bike who explained that cyclists on pavements was the main thing that taxi and van drivers complained about.

Why should taxi and van drivers complain about cyclists on pavements .
I can understand that it may make making deliveries harder although I suspect it has more to do with envy. Given the general standard of van driving perhaps they ought to think more about getting their own house in order.

 

[coops]

I agree Ian, the idea of van & taxi drivers complaining of cyclists struck me as quite absurd: I can only think that, in the context, they were using it as a (laughable) attempt to deflect attention from & avoid accepting responsibility for their own bad driving, having been stopped by said policeman for that reason .

I expect many bus drivers (who seem to be a law to themselves & immune from being stopped by police) would say similar... .

 

[flecc]

Why should taxi and van drivers complain about cyclists on pavements .
I can understand that it may make making deliveries harder although I suspect it has more to do with envy. Given the general standard of van driving perhaps they ought to think more about getting their own house in order.

It certainly sounds absurd, but there's a bit more to this in Central London. The large number of cycle couriers frequently use the pavements and roads at very high speeds, freely swapping between them at high speed without warning, flying across red lights between traffic crossing on the other phase. There's been many accidents including serious collisions with pedestrians, and many couriers have accounts of their serious crashes, sometimes hospitalising them with broken bones and the like. Some of them are really lunatic in their behaviour and attitudes.

All this often scares drivers, leaving them nervous of fast moving bikes on the pavement which might suddenly dive into the road in front of them. No London taxi driver has ever been bothered by my occasional slow and measured use of a pavement section to my knowledge.
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[Ian]

many couriers have accounts of their serious crashes, sometimes hospitalising them with broken bones and the like. Some of them are really lunatic in their behaviour and attitudes.

Here is a video of London couriers racing, proof of their lunatic behavior which is as bad as their NYC counterparts.

While I can certainly understand complaints about fast riding on pavements I feel it's a bit rich coming from "white van man".

 

[flecc]

The policeman discussion about White van men being angry about cyclist on the pavement, I really do not know what this has to do with them?

Best Regards

Scott

That was Central London Scott, and I explained above, repeated below with relevance highlighted, how it has something to do with drivers:

"there's a bit more to this in Central London. The large number of cycle couriers frequently use the pavements and roads at very high speeds, freely swapping between them at high speed without warning, flying across red lights between traffic crossing on the other phase. There's been many accidents including serious collisions with pedestrians, and many couriers have accounts of their serious crashes, sometimes hospitalising them with broken bones and the like. Some of them are really lunatic in their behaviour and attitudes.

All this often scares drivers, leaving them nervous of fast moving bikes on the pavement which might suddenly dive into the road in front of them."

It only needs a single experience of a cyclist doing something daft dangerously close to them to trigger an anti response, and the drivers that's most likely to happen to are those most on these roads, taxi and van drivers.
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[flecc]

Here is a video of London couriers racing, proof of their lunatic behavior which is as bad as their NYC counterparts.

While I can certainly understand complaints about fast riding on pavements I feel it's a bit rich coming from "white van man".

As I explained above Ian, all drivers are affected by it, including those driving vans. Also see here for a post with some relevance to the lot of van drivers and cycle couriers.
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[flecc]

Yes I absolutely agree with your central point Scott, and I would like all pavements away from shopping centres open to safe cycle use. I only exclude shopping centres since they are often congested with pedestrians.

I also don't think there'd be a problem with such an easing of rules in place. The majority of safely cycling cyclists would naturally tend to drag the minority of "too fast" types into line with the general practice.

The cycle couriers are a different issue though, and I think their kind of productivity/road speed related work should be illegal, as it's predisposed to be dangerous. Effectively such employment is incitement to break the law, so is arguably illegal already.
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[DBCohen]

Here's some food for thought on the topic:

BBC NEWS | England | Cornwall | Pavement death cyclist sentenced

David.

 

[Cyclezee]

NO DOUBT ABOUT IT SPEED KILLS! Cyclists as well as pedestrians. I live in Milton Keynes which has an excellent network of Redways (dedicated purpose built cycle routes). A couple of years ago some yobs draged a recently cut tree trunk on to a a Redway, a cyclist hit the tree trunk in the dark at an estimated 20 mph and died instantly of severe head injuries. He wasn't wearing a helmet!

 

[aaannndddyyy]

Last year I was riding home taking the same rout I have been taking for years, a shop on the rout had some new owners how decided to put a chain across the bollard to the wall between there shop and a fast food outlet , I didn’t see it (It was dark), it was like hitting an invisible force field the bike just stopped dead, I went strait over the handle bars and was lucky to get away with only cuts and swatches, I hit the chain so hard about 8 bricks were pulled out of the wall with the chain.
On the point made by DBCohen Cyclist kills pedestrian.
How many car drivers get in the news for killing people on the roads, these are the figures for 2005 in the UK.
3201 people lost their lives
671 pedestrians
148 cyclists

 

[BossBob]

well ... if we are doing video's Not a bike, but got wheels

and In a world full of health & safety nannies its always reassuring to see complete nutters are still amongst us.......

 

[JohnInStockie]

Well funnily enough I came off the bike on Thursday night. After coming over an M56 motorway bridge in Sharston, I had the usual rush hour traffic overtaking and then pulling in right upto the kerb. So I attampted my usual 'hop on the pavement'. Unfortunately the combination of a new moon, the leaves, and a lack of serious lighting combined into my mis-judging the pavement and I tried to hop on at the higest point. Obviously I ended up doing a roll-over manoever on to the pavement at about 16mph.

I think my clothing saved my any injury. I cant remember my head hitting anything, but I am glad I had my helmet on. My left leg did scrape badly, but the trouser/tight thingys I was wearing saved any scrape to my legs, and my lobster gloves did an excellent job saving my hands. All in all, I did have a full fall at full speed, and came away without a bruise. Lucky, I think.

The need for a major amount of light, has just become very clear....

John