Cyclamatic: The Beastamatic is dead! Long live the Beastamatic

[Deleted member 4366]

There's a guy on ES who tried his 24v folding bike at 48v, but got no power. I reckon that he's blown the main capacitor in the controller. His photo shows exactly the same motor as the Cyclamatic marked Suzhou Bafang, so I'm pretty sure that it's a derivative of the SWX motor and the clutch is a common part, so the 36T Bafang gears should fit.

 

[evendine]

Still looking for a good LiFePO4 36v 10Ah pack with standard Cyclamatic form factor...

Example (not sure about spec / quality, etc): 36V 10AH LiFePO4 Battery Aluminium Case+BMS+Charger | eBay

Plan to try it out with standard controller and then upgrade to d8veh's recommended MOSFET controller (fixed under controller compartment on bottom plate). Any advice on suppliers / minimum continuous current spec, etc appreciated

This Chinese outfit looks to have good quality assurance standards - have contacted them for pricing info on this pack: http://www.fentbattery.com/Upload/LeSeno.Com_201129191721414.pdf

 

[Fordulike]

Still looking for a good LiFePO4 36v 10Ah pack with standard Cyclamatic form factor...

Example (not sure about spec / quality, etc): 36V 10AH LiFePO4 Battery Aluminium Case+BMS+Charger | eBay

Plan to try it out with standard controller and then upgrade to d8veh's recommended MOSFET controller (fixed under controller compartment on bottom plate). Any advice on suppliers / minimum continuous current spec, etc appreciated

This Chinese outfit looks to have good quality assurance standards - have contacted them for pricing info on this pack: http://www.fentbattery.com/Upload/LeSeno.Com_201129191721414.pdf

Are you specifically looking for a LiFEPO4 battery?, coz this would probably be a direct replacement using the existing pronged docking platform:

Electric Bike Battery - 36V 9AH Lithium Ion | eBay

The one that you show looks to have the battery output socket at the top of the battery, which would require a bit of modding.

 

[evendine]

Are you specifically looking for a LiFEPO4 battery?, coz this would probably be a direct replacement using the existing pronged docking platform:

Electric Bike Battery - 36V 9AH Lithium Ion | eBay

The one that you show looks to have the battery output socket at the top of the battery, which would require a bit of modding.

Yep - that one was the only example in that form factor I could find on eBay...

LiFePO4 looks a better technology - increased operating temperature range, at least double the lifetime and less prone to early failure, it seems. If I could get one for the same sort of price, think it would be a better bet than the standard Li-ion...

The Fullriver one looks to have the same case as the standard Cyclamatic (although I can't see the bottom connector in the available data-sheet). Will be interesting to see what they quote on price.

Is 20A continuous enough current? I guess 720W is pushing 3x standard, so should provide a fair bit of grunt

 

[bazwaldo]

Hi, I recently sourced a 36V 12AH LiFePO4 battery from China which with a bottom plate, slider rail and charger plus £48 Import charge came to a total just under £300. I have been using it to do a 26 mile round trip commute for the last 2 weeks and it has been working well so far.
I can give you the email address of the vendor if you would like, she seems very genuine.

Barry.

 

[evendine]

Hi, I recently sourced a 36V 12AH LiFePO4 battery from China which with a bottom plate, slider rail and charger plus £48 Import charge came to a total just under £300. I have been using it to do a 26 mile round trip commute for the last 2 weeks and it has been working well so far.
I can give you the email address of the vendor if you would like, she seems very genuine.

Barry.

Would be interested, yes - thanks Barry...

Are using it with an otherwise stock setup?

 

[Scottyf]

You can buy a full cyclematic bike on Ebay at the moment around Birmingham for that price. An it comes with the standard battery about 6 months old ;-)

 

[evendine]

You can buy a full cyclematic bike on Ebay at the moment around Birmingham for that price. An it comes with the standard battery about 6 months old ;-)

Yes, but my aim is to get more power / speed / hill climbing ability with stock appearance and the standard battery doesn't have enough grunt.

 

[Scottyf]

It comes with a battery that you could parallel with the original battery. Double the range or double the hill climbing ability with a shunt mod.

Or Series the batteries and get 30 mph ;-)
You'll need to change the controller though...

 

[Deleted member 4366]

If the top and/or bottom mouldings are different, it's a five minute job to swap them from your old battery. Worst case, you might have to re-route the wires inside, which isn't very difficult.

 

[evendine]

It comes with a battery that you could parallel with the original battery. Double the range or double the hill climbing ability with a shunt mod.

Or Series the batteries and get 30 mph ;-)
You'll need to change the controller though...

Yes, but I want a bike which looks stock while performing well on hills and have several people interested in the same configuration who aren't modders. Being able to simply swap the battery out (and perhaps upgrade the motor controller) seems like the best all-round solution...

I have a new standard bike and a test rat. When I find the right setup, I'll test it on the rat and if ok apply it to the new bike and sell it to a waiting friend. Easy enough to sell spare 24v batteries on eBay...

A 36v pack seems the best choice from the experience of others on the thread. Fordulike stripped his motor gears running higher voltages...

 

[bazwaldo]

Would be interested, yes - thanks Barry...

Are using it with an otherwise stock setup?

Yes absolutely stock, my Bearprint is pretty much identical to the Freego Ebike and the parts are also similar to those on the Juicybikes all made in the same factory as far as I know.
There are some differences between the batteries - the Chinese LiFePO4 battery has the connector pins the other way round for the + & - terminals and has an extra 2 prongs (4 altogether) which I think holds the battery firmer to the bottom plate.
For the long term if this battery works well and lasts well a future replacement would just be the battery only so cheaper again now that I have a charger, bottom plate and slide rail.
I had to solder bullet connectors onto the wires to connect to the controller which wasn't too difficult.
If the battery lasts and performs according to expectations given by Dave at Kudos it could turn out to be a good investment. Time will tell.
I will try and "PM" you with the Chinese vendors email address.

Barry.

 

[evendine]

A slight aside, but strikes me if the throttle set an upper power limit, it would be much more useful than at present - allowing you to both conserve batt life and determine how much energy you need to put in via the pedals, particularly if you're running uprated power. Even with a shunt mod 24v setup, it's noticeable that you have to try to 'keep up' when peddling (esp on the flat).

Anyone know if it's possible to wire the throttle set-point into the motor-controller in this way, or is it hard-wired? Maybe custom controllers would allow it?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

A slight aside, but strikes me if the throttle set an upper power limit, it would be much more useful than at present - allowing you to both conserve batt life and determine how much energy you need to put in via the pedals, particularly if you're running uprated power. Even with a shunt mod 24v setup, it's noticeable that you have to try to 'keep up' when peddling (esp on the flat).

Anyone know if it's possible to wire the throttle set-point into the motor-controller in this way, or is it hard-wired? Maybe custom controllers would allow it?

It's not possible tochange anything in the normal conrollers that you get with ready-made ebikes, As far as i can figure out, the throttles effectively act as speed controllers because the current always increases as you slow down with the throttle held constant. It's more complicated than that because the max current given is less at half throttle than full throttle. If you want to reduce the speed at which your motor assists to conserve power, although i haven't tried it, I reckon a 10K potentiometer wired between the throttle signal wire and the ground should do the job, if you can't hold the throttle constamt at less than full. Unfortunately, there's not much you can do about the pedal sensor because the controller is counting pulses from it in most cases.
Why don't you make a cruise control like mine, then you can go at whatever speed you want up to maximum?

 

[evendine]

Why don't you make a cruise control like mine, then you can go at whatever speed you want up to maximum?

I suppose that's what i meant by the above really, but using the throttle to set the cruise (while peddling) speed dynamically, as it were. Have you actually implemented a working cruise control

Does the throttle setting actually effect the output power when peddling (if it's set above zero)? I tend to use one or the other usually...

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I suppose that's what i meant by the above really, but using the throttle to set the cruise (while peddling) speed dynamically, as it were. Have you actually implemented a working cruise control

Does the throttle setting actually effect the output power when peddling (if it's set above zero)? I tend to use one or the other usually...

Mine works like this:
There's a three position switch that switches between cruise and normal throttle. In the middle position, neither are connected, so it works on the pedal sensor. Whatever speed you've selected with the cruise control knob is the speed the bike goes to when you throw the switch - whether you pedal or not. If you set a low speed - say 12mph - then, when you pedal past 12mph, you're on your own. The power tails off soon after 12mph, so you can go a long way with hardly any battery. When a hill comes, the bike starts to slow down, and when it goes below 12mph, the controller feeds in power in an attempt to maintain that speed. The slower you go, the more power is given, I think most cheap controllers work like this.

You cannot use this cruise control without brake cut-offs because it would be dangerous and even then, it's easy to forget it's on and let go the brake, wherupon the bike kicks forward with full power because it's present speed is way below the set speed.

I don't use my throttle anymore. I start off with the switch in the middle position for pedal sensor control only, and as soon as I'm rolling, I switch to cruise, and dial in the speed I want to go - normally 15mph. After that I use the brakes to control the speed. The brake switch comes on before the brakes have any effect, so the brake levers are like a sort of on/off switch, which is useful when things get a bit tight - pedestrians, etc.

It costs about £5 to make the cruise control. You need one 3 position switch, one 10k linear pot and a little box to put them in. You can get all of them from Maplin. You can see the control on the left handlebar in my picture of the Speedict in the Speedict thread. Here's the wiring schematic:

 

[evendine]

Like the concept - better than my idea, as you don't have to hold the throttle in a particular position to maintain the set-point, which might be problematic...

You cannot use this cruise control without brake cut-offs because it would be dangerous and even then, it's easy to forget it's on and let go the brake, wherupon the bike kicks forward with full power because it's present speed is way below the set speed.

Would be good to find a way to solve this problem...

When in cruise mode, how about using a latching relay which is set by opening the throttle and reset by the brakes being applied? The contacts would make / break the green set-point line between the pot wiper and the switch in the diagram, giving a default of pedal sensor mode after braking. To return to cruise mode, simply open the throttle sufficiently to close the relay contacts

 

[evendine]

This latching relay from Maplin would probably do the job if you added a zener diode matched to the coil voltage across the coil to limit voltage (+ provide BEMF protection) and a current limiting resistor in series with the signal line in each case:

2A Miniature DPDT Latching Relay : General Purpose Relays : Maplin Electronics

Maybe add a tri-colour LED to indicate mode?:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/tri-colour-led-26361

This is the best deal I've found for a 36v 10Ah LiFePO4 pack with BMS and charger so far @ £164 delivered:

36V 10AH LIFEPO4 Lithium Battery electric bicycle bike | eBay

They provide a free custom service apparently, so perhaps they could put a pack together that would drop straight into an existing Cyclamatic case?

 

[evendine]

36v LiFePO4 drop in batteries...

A quick update on 36v LiFePO4 drop-in batteries. The one I mentioned earlier in the thread which was labelled as LiFePO4 on eBay turned out to be Li(NiCoMn)O2 (spotted that the cell voltage was wrong, let them know and they updated the listing):

eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace

I've been in discussions with Fullriver over the last few weeks and they seem to be a professional outfit. They designed a custom battery pack for me for another project during that period and are offering a range of QA / certification options, which seems like a good sign.

We also discussed their prismatic cell based drop-in replacement 36v 10Ah LiFePO4 pack:

http://www.fentbattery.com/Upload/LeSeno.Com_201129191721414.pdf

...and they have offered me a sample with charger for £208 delivered - much the best price I've been able to find. The lead time is around a month, unfortunately, but should be worth it if it's a quality product. Any thoughts appreciated - it's about twice what I paid for the bike and I'm a bit worried about dealing direct with a Chinese company...

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The price seems OK. I don't know the supplier, in which casee I'd be cautious like you. QA certificates can be fake, so don't take too much notice of them unless you check with the certifying body. As long as you pay with Paypal, you'll have a l;evel of protection, but if the battery goes wrong, you have to send it back at your cost to get your money back from Paypal. If it gets damaged in transit, you should be able to get it sent back FOC as long as you hassle the carrier. Also, there's a small chance you might get hit for duty.