Cutting off my nose...

keithhazel · Mar 21, 2008

i can imagine how you feel, but seriously how will you feel if when you return you cancel and they turn up a week, a month, 2 months later ?......if they are the best you can get then you have to wait i think or ride the second best......isnt the very best worth waiting for ? regardless of failed promises, to be truthful nobody thinks 50 cycles are not trying their best to get them, they are like the porter on the platform who gets hounded and hammered when there is a very late running train, he's not driving it, he never delayed it, its out of his control, yet he gets the flak ?...unless you have any reason to doubt 50 cycles credibility i say you must wait, for me i have got the very best folding bike i could get, i had others which had some good points but was always "second best" and left me craving the "best"...i got the best in the end and it is worth it every which way....dont spit out your dummy as yes they will miss your money but you will miss the bike more.....

jimmyengland1000 · Mar 21, 2008

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade but, in January, I was told that the diamond frame bikes had already left Germany on the Thursday and would be with me the following week. When I asked what models had been sent, nobody knew. In fact, nothing arrived.

jimmyengland1000 · Mar 21, 2008

keithhazel said:
how will you feel if when you return you cancel and they turn up a week, a month, 2 months later ?......

If he cancels on 5 April and they still take another 2 months to arrive, I suspect he will feel relieved, surely? By that time it would be JUNE....spring already passed,lovely cycling days (one hopes) lost... just to wait for a bike that people say is the best but which nobody has seen, or ridden. Also, as Flecc has repeatedly pointed out, the Panasonic motor system is not necessarily everyone's preference, so there's no guarantee that Simon will agree that it's "the best bike" after he gets it. Now, that would be a pain, wouldn't it?

I certainly don't regret cancelling my order. I bought the Wisper 905SE instead and have already covered 350 great miles..... something I certainly wouldn't have done on the non-appearing Agattu. It really is subjective as to what bike is 'best' too. If you want a throttle, even for occasional use only, then the Agattu is not the 'best'. Same goes for more absorbent front suspension. Or, one could argue, appearance. Not everyone will appreciate being forced to pedal in order to have the Panasonic motor assist to whatever level one sets. So, 'best' really is subjective and can't really be used as a reason to wait for months for a bike, I'd say.

Incidentally, I e-mailed Derby Cycles again after looking at their video on 50Cycles site... the one that says how good they are. I e-mailed them in German and in English, to ask for an update re the Agattu and the Pro-Connect. No response whatsoever... same as last time.

keithhazel · Mar 21, 2008

jimmyengland1000 said:
If he cancels on 5 April and they still take another 2 months to arrive, I suspect he will feel relieved, surely? By that time it would be JUNE....spring already passed,lovely cycling days (one hopes) lost... just to wait for a bike that people say is the best but which nobody has seen, or ridden. Also, as Flecc has repeatedly pointed out, the Panasonic motor system is not necessarily everyone's preference, so there's no guarantee that Simon will agree that it's "the best bike" after he gets it. Now, that would be a pain, wouldn't it?

I certainly don't regret cancelling my order. I bought the Wisper 905SE instead and have already covered 350 great miles..... something I certainly wouldn't have done on the non-appearing Agattu. It really is subjective as to what bike is 'best' too. If you want a throttle, even for occasional use only, then the Agattu is not the 'best'. Same goes for more absorbent front suspension. Or, one could argue, appearance. Not everyone will appreciate being forced to pedal in order to have the Panasonic motor assist to whatever level one sets. So, 'best' really is subjective and can't really be used as a reason to wait for months for a bike, I'd say.

Incidentally, I e-mailed Derby Cycles again after looking at their video on 50Cycles site... the one that says how good they are. I e-mailed them in German and in English, to ask for an update re the Agattu and the Pro-Connect. No response whatsoever... same as last time.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
i dont disagree with what you have put, but useing his own words he "believes" its the best e-bike and like i found, untill i tried the Quando i didnt "know".....THATS THE ANSWER .......as scott's e-mail has stated that all the bikes in the range will be in so have test ride first, that way anyone can make their own mind up if its the "best e-bike for them".....
my mind is however playing games with me as now we have two people talking about doing "trials on "secret" e-bikes"..........what if these turn out to be "the best"......

.....

Erik · Mar 21, 2008

I'm also getting a bit tired about people whipping a dead horse in form of 50Cycles failing to pull the bikes out of the Derby factory.

I am sure that everything 50cycles have told their customers has been based on information given from Derby at that time.

I know how frustrating delivery delays can be, but as one wrote above, it's like blaming the porter on the platform for the train being late.

In this case, Flecc's and A to B's very positive review have apparently created a huge demand for the Agattu's, which might be higher than Derby's forecasts, leading to shortage of Panasonic motors.

Items like these motors are made in batches of predefined sizes with leadtimes of 100 days or more, and afterwards the production line is set up to a different product which was planned months before. It's like the "slot" they always talk about in the TV-show about Heathrow Airport.

As you might know, a lot of the parts in japanese products come from many small subcontractors, which are not able to double their production overnight.

In my line of work, I have several times been in the same situation as 50Cycles, ie. I made a quotation based on a delivery time given to me by the manufacturer, and when I get the order the manufacturer confirms a longer delivery time than promised, which gets prolonged several times.

Believe me, I have had some serious crashes between German and Danish business culture, going to the top of the organisation when the floor-level people have failed several times to give proper answers.

Django · Mar 21, 2008

50cycles said:
Finally regarding a choice of a Chinese Hub motor or German/Japanese pedelec combination there is no question of which is more of a suitable bike for most people looking for a true reliable Electric Bicycle. Now we are distributing such a fantastic product we now know the reason why the old Lafree pulled the heartstrings of so many people, simply because it is what most people are really looking for with an Electric Bike. The Kalkhoff is the new improved version of this system and no Chinese bike will ever compare to such quality.

{ad removed}

Happy Easter

Scott

OK, now I am getting seriously irritated. These repeated digs at eZee bikes and the explicit racism apparent in your post, Scott, are unacceptable. What precisely is it about Chinese people that makes you object to their hub motors? If it is a simple case of preferring what you term as a 'pedelec combination' why mention nationality at all? And what precisely it is about Chinese people that means they will never be able to match the quality of the Germans?

Secondly, it is against the forum rules to indulge in such blatant advertising.

It is not for me to speak for other members, but I for one take great exception to both your tone and your message.

Django

fishingpaul · Mar 21, 2008

50 cycles have stated that they are not concerned by the delay in delivery,how very half soaked when there are customers eagerly awaiting delivery of their new bikes,and then they try and rubbish chinese hub motor bikes,after splitting with ezee,very childlike and unprofessional.

keithhazel · Mar 22, 2008

simonbarnett said:
It's cetainly odd to rubbish bikes they were proudly boasting about a short time ago . --------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

i agree here, as only a few weeks ago i watched the u-tube clip of them at glastonbury i think it was when they where promoting the bikes they where selling at the time, he says to one man .."what a great piece of kit dont you think".....and other complimentary comments, i think n this case as i cant think of another "porter" analgy...or something ....to move to another product and then suddenly say unflattering things about the product they once sung praises about would have me thinking..."do they genuinly believe in this product im about to buy or are they "just" selling something"....however this is only my own view, "horses for course"....

flecc · Mar 22, 2008

50cycles said:
Flecc just hit the nail on the head, thank you.

Scott

Sorry Scott, seeing that you'd answered just after I had, I deleted my answer to leave it to you, then found you'd added this line. However, I'll repeat my answer now from memory so your comment makes sense:

keithhazel said:
"do they genuinly believe in this product im about to buy or are they "just" selling something"...

I think the key word is "believe" in all fairness. Apart from a couple of Japanese folders, 50cycles experience over the last four years was almost entirely that of the eZee brand. Those were mainly the glory days when they were the most wanted bikes around, especially the Torq, and when they used NiMh batteries.

Of course they believed in them, they could hardly not do so with people battering down the door to buy one.

But then came the Li-ion troubles. Like most Chinese production, the bikes had always had some quality issues which required constant attention, and the Li-ion failures drew those increasingly into the frame.

The quality of the German built Kalkhoff bikes suddenly brought the contrast into sharp focus, and so I don't find the comments surprising, though it might have been more diplomatic to have left them unsaid. However, the recent events would have resulted in some anger, prompting the odd hasty response.
.

Ian · Mar 22, 2008

Until now I have tried to remain a moderate on the great 50cycles debate, most of it relating to issues outside of my personal experience. However 50cycles have now posted such a load of codswallop that I can no longer remain silent. The really irritating point is that what they assured me were top quality machines a couple of years ago are apparently now of a lesser quality, of course this is totally untrue as is the point Scott makes about a change in the law, Continental Ezee bikes have always complied with EU law and the only change is the likely enforcement of EU law here. It is very much a case of a salesman bending with the wind, a quality that does nothing to endear them to the buying public who have longer memories and more intelligence than they often imagine.

I own two Ezee bikes and despite apparently being Chinese rubbish both have always been faultless performers. It's probably worth reiterating, as Scott has done in the past, that Ezee are actually a Singaporean owned company rather than purely Chinese and apart from the appallingly handled battery issues they really have no quality problems. I really do wish the new Ezee distributor success however I do hope he is prepared for the cold water that will inevitably be poured on his enterprise. If and when my present bikes need replacing that will be my first point of call.

stokepa31 · Mar 22, 2008

I think Scott might have phrased it better but he is right on a number of issues.

Fistly I am a torq rider and many of you will be aware that i've had number of issues since getting it late last year. I have found this very frustrating but such is life

I dropped my Torq off at 50c yesterday for a repair and had a chance to ride an agattu.

The agattu is streets ahead of the torq in almost all areas. Its like comparing a gazelle to an elephant in terms of weight and handling. The agattu has a really nice balance and is much more comfortable than the torq. You actually feel the bike under you.

I did feel the gearing was too low but I think the bike I riding was having a few problems with its gears. (probably the same one Burncycle tried). I also tried one with a modded rear sprocket which was much more like it and comparable with the torqs raw speed.

I undestand the gearing on the pro connect will be higher anyway.

The difference really is night and day and I think the new outfit selling the Ezee bikes will have its work cut out to keep market share. If I was them I would be looking for groundbreaking new models from Ezee to secure their future revenue streams as the Kalkoff's are likely to dominate the market.

Ezee may become like Rover if they dont change and keep pace with a market that is taking leaps forward all the time. They will have to offer more than just hub motors to remain strong in the market.

I'm sure 50c would handle things differently if they had their time over regarding this whole saga but we are where we are and i'm sure they will learn the lessons of the last six months. It is one thing to have the best product but it is not enough on its own.

For the record I dont regard my Torq as an antique but I would trade it for a Kalkoff in a flash. Vork sprung durk technic!!

Paul

Django · Mar 22, 2008

50cycles said:
OK what can you say

Sorry, perhaps?

Django

Django · Mar 22, 2008

stokepa31 said:
Ezee may become like Rover if they dont change and keep pace with a market that is taking leaps forward all the time.

Agreed. It is a sign of a healthy market that all companies will need to move forward and quite rapidly. New models from eZee and Wisper will, in due course, be forthcoming and I suspect they will once again push the boundaries of excellence. Flecc is right that most Chinese production has been marked by quality issues, but the view of 50cycles that they will never be able to compare to the best German bikes is both complacent and insulting.

The other key factors are availability, the quality of the distributor and the quality of factory backup. Given all the variables and at least until eZee have a new distributor, for my money Wisper offer the best all round package.

Cheers,

Django

Ian · Mar 22, 2008

Anyone who doubts the quality potential of Chinese manufacturing perhaps ought to consider where the majority of Shimano and Panasonic production now takes place, along with that of almost all major manufactures of consumer products. The Kalkhoffs may have more Chinese quality built in than people think.

The Japanese manufacturing arm of my own employer moved production to China a few years ago, initially there were some quality issues but the Chinese learn fast and now the Chinese product is indistinguishable from it's Japanese made predecessor.

Thinking that Japanese competitors could never match the quality killed British industry so it is as well not to underestimate the Chinese.

Cutting off my nose...

Esteemed Pedelecer

Esteemed Pedelecer

Esteemed Pedelecer

Esteemed Pedelecer

Guest

Guest

Esteemed Pedelecer

Esteemed Pedelecer

Pedelecer

Esteemed Pedelecer

Esteemed Pedelecer

Esteemed Pedelecer

Esteemed Pedelecer

Esteemed Pedelecer

Member

Esteemed Pedelecer

stokepa31

Guest

Esteemed Pedelecer

Esteemed Pedelecer

Esteemed Pedelecer

Advertisers