Cutting off my nose...

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Not being very technical, I think cadence is like rpm. But from memory Flecc, I think you recommended a change from the 22 tooth to 19 as the best compromise for a bit more speed at slight reduction of range? I forgot to ask 50C to do this so they'll love that...
Yes, cadence is just the name for pedalling rpm.

Either 18 or 19 tooth is ok for the Agattu rear sprocket, depending on territory, biased to hilly choose 19 tooth, or not too hilly the 18 tooth, but it's not critical.

I've no idea whether 50cycles will do this, since it alters the bike into the illegal area for assist speed. They wouldn't do it on the Torq for the same reason. It's an easy job though, or any cycle dealer can do it for you as the wheel is completely normal bike stuff.
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Now that we are on to the subject of defying Panasonics intentions with this motor, wouldn't it be possible to forge the signal of "rider input" to make the motor give more than 130% of rider input?

Sensor value manipulation is the way the cheaper tuning boxes for turbo diesel cars work.
No. :D

It's integrated into the mainboard in computer fashion, using a dedicated processor chip, no adjustments. There is also a 150% version in a different unit:

 
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simonbarnett

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 26, 2007
338
25
West Hampstead, NW London
[QUOTE=flecc;22450

I've no idea whether 50cycles will do this, since it alters the bike into the illegal area for assist speed.

Interesting that they had one with a modded rear sprocket for Stokepa31 to try then;) . Thanks for the repeated advice though.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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In that case fine Simon, I was just anticipating the possible objection. They'd possibly taken the cue from my review suggestion, but the bike that Paul tried might have been Scott's.
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Mandy

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 23, 2007
512
0
I think that given he new legislation, the main push now has to be on the weight and balance of a bike along with range at the legal limit. The one thing that also really appealed to me about the kalkoff's is that they would be easy to look after. No bike shop in coventry would touch my Torq and so the thought of being able to easily fix punctures, change spokes and other essential maintenance by just pooping off the wheel really appeals.

I guess what I am saying is tht in terms of being practical, the hub motor must surely die a death.

P
You can easily "poop" off the rear motor inserted wheel on the Wisper SE to fix a puncture :) Not all are the same.
Regards
Mandy
 

keithhazel

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 1, 2007
997
0
You can easily "poop" off the rear motor
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can you explain what "poop" or "pooping" off means in bike terms please as "poop" and "pooping" means something not to do with bikes round there ere parts...:rolleyes:
 
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stokepa31

Guest
I dont think the bike I tried was for public consumption so to speak. I did ask Lloyd if 50c would be able to offer the mod and he said they were looking into it. Would you need to shorten the chain too???
 

Citrus

Pedelecer
Jan 3, 2007
176
1
I dont think the bike I tried was for public consumption so to speak. I did ask Lloyd if 50c would be able to offer the mod and he said they were looking into it. Would you need to shorten the chain too???
Hi stokepa31,

I removed a couple of links on my Agattu when I went to an 18T sprocket. Now my fitness is better and I have lost a few kilos I can average about 15.5 mph and have reached a top speed of 36.8mph (downhill of course). I have now done a little over 650 miles since I got it at the end of December, but now I am using it to commute to work I expect this to rise rapidly. I have been very impressed so far with my bike.
 

Erik

Pedelecer
Feb 20, 2008
198
3
No. :D

It's integrated into the mainboard in computer fashion, using a dedicated processor chip, no adjustments. There is also a 150% version in a different unit:



Amplifying the signal from the coil assembly would fool the controller to think one was pushing harder on the pedals.

That is what the do in the tuning boxes for cars. 10 cent tuning, a resistor replacing the fuel temperature sensor makes the ECU inject more fuel.

For common rail systems, the rail pressure sensor signal is forged lower and thereby raised. Harley Davidson and other motorcycles have ignition systems that retard the ignition at higher RPM's for noise reasons. Clever little add-on boxes give the advance back.

You also break into the chain speed hall sensor circuit and add an "electronic gearbox" that lowerered the sensed rotation speed.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,312
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Amplifying the signal from the coil assembly would fool the controller to think one was pushing harder on the pedals.

You also break into the chain speed hall sensor circuit and add an "electronic gearbox" that lowerered the sensed rotation speed.
That's not how it works Erik, it's a differential signal and not an amplitude signal that reads the pedal effort, hence the coil centre tap.

And there's no point in altering the Hall sensor circuit to read rotation speed differently when a simple change of rear sprocket on the bike or change of motor sprocket has the same effect.

Of course the differential signal from the pedelec sensor could be differentially amplified in theory, but in practice the signals are so minutely different and the reading so sensitive that such crude tactics would not produce a pleasant result, probably spoiling what was so good about these bikes.

Also relevant is how small and low powered the motor is, how it lacks cooling provision and is equipped with a temperature cut-out. Any extension of it's capability is severely limited.

I think a better approach is to scrap the present motor and mainboard, only reading rotation from the pedelec sensor and fitting a more powerful motor and conventional controller to the existing alloy crankcase. That would result in a better form of the Cyclone design.
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frank9755

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 19, 2007
1,228
2
London
By the way am I missing something - have Wisper started selling their 905SEs in the UK yet? So 50 cycles are not the only supplier struggling to get a popular product to the market place?
Hal, they've been on sale in the UK for about six months! Electric Bike Sales - Shop Online for Electric Bikes, Electric Vehicles and Cycle Accessories - 905se
Wisper sent half their first container to Germany and half to the UK. I tried one here back at the start of November, and would have bought one had the German ones not become available at a discount.
Regards,
Frank
 
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stokepa31

Guest
Hal, they've been on sale in the UK for about six months! Electric Bike Sales - Shop Online for Electric Bikes, Electric Vehicles and Cycle Accessories - 905se
Wisper sent half their first container to Germany and half to the UK. I tried one here back at the start of November, and would have bought one had the German ones not become available at a discount.
Regards,
Frank
Frank

I thought Wisper had confirmed on here that it would be late April/early May before UK versions were in stock.

Paul
 

frank9755

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 19, 2007
1,228
2
London
That's the 2008 version but, as David announced on the forum about 6 months ago, half of the first container of 2007 edition SE bikes went to Germany, half to the UK - see below for his clarification.

Hi Pedelecers all.

Regarding the confusion.

The situation is thus;

The first container of 905se went to Germany about 6 weeks ago in time for the FMA in Cologne. These bikes were essentially Sports. The Citys will be ready for next season. We have had half the German container shipped here to test the market, but are pretty sure they will be enthusiastically received.

Another batch went out to Australia where our Oz Partner achieved 80 kilometers in hilly terrain using assist mode on Sunday so the new 13.8a 36v battery seems to be doing it's job well.

The reason we have produced 4 models is for the world market, for instance our Canadian Partner wants a low entry model, so he is only stocking the basic 905, where as our Dutch Partners want a high end bike with full mudguards and rack hence the 905se City (now without those huge magnesium front forks Frank!) is their bike of choice. For the UK market we will be stocking the 905e and the 905se sport as we believe that they will be the best sellers although the 905 basic and the 905se City will be available to order.

The 705se City, which will have all the power of the 905se but no front suspension and will have caliper brakes instead of disk on the front wheel, will be available in January and will be the only 705 model stocked here in UK.

Prices will be; 905e £997.00 905se Sport £1195.00 and 705se City £1095.00 still wonderful value for money.

We do however have a few of the original 905e left at New Milton at £849.00
...
As always, very best regards David
 

HarryB

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 22, 2007
1,317
3
London
Yes corrected but I do find it a little disconcerting that they are not sold via Wisper or advertised on their website. Personally I wouldn't buy one knowing that the 2008 version is just around the corner AND we have been waiting for the whole range of improved Wisper bikes now for many more months than we have been waiting for the Agutta. But we all know why we are frustrated about waiting for the Agutta......because it is sounds so good.
 

frank9755

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 19, 2007
1,228
2
London
I don't believe in buying anything that is not available or does not yet exist, however good it might turn out to be!

For those who are living in hope of some day getting an Agattu or Pro-Connect, I'd recommend getting a second-hand Powabyke off eBay, and giving it a few months until the Agattu is launched and the teething troubles ironed out!

Frank
 

Citrus

Pedelecer
Jan 3, 2007
176
1
I don't believe in buying anything that is not available or does not yet exist, however good it might turn out to be!

For those who are living in hope of some day getting an Agattu or Pro-Connect, I'd recommend getting a second-hand Powabyke off eBay, and giving it a few months until the Agattu is launched and the teething troubles ironed out!

Frank
I doubt very much there will be any teething troubles judging by my Agattu Wave version. I do feel very sorry for all those waiting for the gents Agattu and Pro Connect though - extremely frustrating.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,312
30,677
For those who are living in hope of some day getting an Agattu or Pro-Connect, I'd recommend getting a second-hand Powabyke off eBay, and giving it a few months until the Agattu is launched and the teething troubles ironed out!

Frank
Sorry Frank, I strongly disagree with that.

There's a number of powered Agattus on the road, deliveries happened some while ago on some sizes. The Panasonic motor system is so well tried that one hardly needs to wait for any teething troubles, they happened long ago.

The bike parts are those of two models that have been around previously in their unpowered versions, so already with a history on the road, and far better made than any Powabyke has ever been.

Therefore I don't think it advisable to buy a second hand bike on those grounds.
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