Covert Ops

[Woosh]

Well maybe it's all coincidence or perhaps they can all smell fish?

I was hoping that we won't go there.

 

[JuicyBike]

I remember the story Dave, but the name escapes me.

What is most worrying is that right now all the forum activity is between arguing traders.
That simply has to stop and soon! It must be a turn off for visitors.
Perhaps a refresh of etiquette and forum rules from Helen and Russ...

 

[flecc]

RobF, AQ and Flecc.

You missed out falmouthtony, but perhaps you don't know about the product.
.

 

[Crockers]

So something is a cooking.....I must say I initially misread one post about poof posters. Then spotted the "s".

 

[Woosh]

Thank you Flecc. I see our presence on the forum primarily to provide additional support to members outside office hours. Ever since Hatti and David Miall had a spat, she does not like posting here and to be perfectly honest, neither do I.

 

[Kudoscycles]

It may seem obvious to regular forum users, who the trade-connected spoof posters are, but not for visitors or newbies. Their actions undermine the trust and reputation of the Pedelecs Site.
I've only just started posting again after an absence prompted by the borish monopolising of just a few over enthusiastic "traders", posting indescriminantly about their own products, or diverting threads from their original, sometimes inconvenient subjects.
A thread on ethics posted recently shows a good example of how this diversion technique is still diluting the original values of this site.
I'm disheartened that this is still happening and can understand why users are turning to other sites instead.
You're a brave man, for raising the subject. Hats off to you.

Bob.
I totally agree,I especially hate it when traders try to slip bike names into their posting when there is no real relevance.....
I had a bad trip home from work today,had to make a RAPIDE ESCAPE from the CITY faced by a TYPHOON or was it a TORNADO,to attend a SECRET COBRA meeting.
There I didn't mention Kudos once,no Kudos in the title,no Kudos in the text,signed KudosDave of Kudoscycles.

 

[EddiePJ]

What is most worrying is that right now all the forum activity is between arguing traders.
That simply has to stop and soon! It must be a turn off for visitors.
Perhaps a refresh of etiquette and forum rules from Helen and Russ...

I can think of one such thread in relation to two bike choices, that reads more like traders desperately arguing over a bone. I include you in that one.

 

[JuicyBike]

I can think of one such thread in relation to two bike choices, that reads more like traders arguing over a bone. I include you in that one.

Happy to be shown where I went wrong...

 

[EddiePJ]

You went wrong by shutting the door to other people's opinions, and along with Amps, embellished written content to suit, which wasn't even in context with the OP's choice of bike. That is how it read as an end user.

Neither your self or Amps, appeared to like the fact that Kudos Dave and Cyclezee made other suggestions for bikes, which both myself and Rob F had also indicated to. Rob by memory listing KTM and Cube, and myself on two occasions just suggesting broadening his choice, with no recommendation made.
If I had been the end user looking to purchase a bike, I'd have been grateful for any other trader making valid suggestions for other choices, and I'd have wondered and been very suspicious about why you were being so apparently desperate to keep the topic so one sided.

Traders have recently been moaned at for posting in wrong sections or advertising their goods in threads. Personally I have no issue with either, but I don't like to see dealers blatantly trying to dismiss the valid opinions of other dealers. As an end user the input of a dealer adding to threads, is reassuring, trying to dismiss others isn't.

 

[flecc]

Thank you Flecc. I see our presence on the forum primarily to provide additional support to members outside office hours. Ever since Hatti and David Miall had a spat, she does not like posting here and to be perfectly honest, neither do I.

Don't be upset Tony, I see it all ultimately as a bit of fun. You've got good products at excellent prices so there's really nothing to be unhappy about.

another Tony
.

 

[JuicyBike]

Fair point. The OP asked about two bikes after a long search, neither of which were mine, and I allowed my irritation of traders wading in with alternatives to spoil it for you - very sorry for that.
What should be the appropriate etiquette to follow in that situation? To help me and hopefully others in the future ?

 

[oldtom]

As I stare into my teacup, it looks like there's a wind getting up in there. Looking even closer, I'm sure there's a few spits of rain too.

Probably, if I look again tomorrow, it will all seem perfectly normal.

Tom

 

[Andy_H]

What I found amusing about the "shortlist down to two" thread was that there are 71 replies, but the only one from the op was the first question.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Appropriate etiquette

Tell them to shut up and answer the question. Sorry it isn't very politically correct as an answer but I did answer the OP's question and what followed did annoy me slightly...

 

[VictoryV]

Bob.
I totally agree,I especially hate it when traders try to slip bike names into their posting when there is no real relevance.....
I had a bad trip home from work today,had to make a RAPIDE ESCAPE from the CITY faced by a TYPHOON or was it a TORNADO,to attend a SECRET COBRA meeting.
There I didn't mention Kudos once,no Kudos in the title,no Kudos in the text,signed KudosDave of Kudoscycles.

The Kudos goes to you then!

 

[Crockers]

As an end user.....all I can think when reading this is ........Is the market so small that traders / manufacturers fight over every single piece if business?? If so then wtf is going on in this market place. If they are that desperate are they practically living from hand to mouth?? If so what's the odds they will go belly up soon and therefore I might be better off only looking at ebikes from large manufacturers. To mind that does make - perhaps- smartebiker not so daft as he's made himself sound. He has the backing of Mercedes...KTM are a large motorbike firm from Austria...BMW do ebikes...then you have the household (to the man in the street) name of Raleigh and all their sub brands.
All the rest - to the layman are not really known and need to prove themselves in the market place.
One way to do that is stop the anarchic posts. Two is to offer transferable warranties.

Sorry if this isn't what you guys want to hear but you are giving out the impression to me you are cottage industries working in sheds at the bottom of the garden.

This isn't meant to be antagonistic just to let you know how you're all coming over.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Crackers....the ebike industry is a very strange one.....it is very small in terms of sellers,new ones appear every month to disappear just as quickly.....there are a hard core few who seem to hang in there.
It is a very cyclic business,for 4 months of the year you hardly sell a bike so you need alternative income to carry over that period or live very lean.
Some are importers/sellers but some are just agents for the bigger manufacturers,they don't own their stock in fact they never see their stock.
I sell rally parts,compressors,welders,tooling but don't get involved in forums of every aspect of my business,the e-bike business is only 5% of our revenue but it is very personal because the design/spec of these bikes has been personally chosen.
I think this is why we are often emotive about these bikes,there are probably only 30 people who are actively selling these bikes,away from the forum we all know each other.
There is something about this industry that attracts individuals who are still at the pioneering stage and we each have our own interpretation of what makes the best e-bike,all at different price levels and type.
The reason why many of us are concentrated on this forum is that there are very few marketing mediums available and this forum is an inexpensive method of presenting the product to a committed audience in a very small overal market. If the market were much bigger I suspect there would be dedicated e-bike magazines that would review/discuss/advertise the bikes,but such magazines have not yet matured so this forum is pretty unique.
We are not trading out of garden sheds,certainly not living from hand to mouth.....you do need to be well financed to cope with the yearly cycle,it can be 9 months from order to sale,which is why some appear,realise it is difficult cash flow and disappear.
Kudos,parent company established 43 years,holds over 700 bikes at the peak time with £50k of supporting spares,down to about 400 now and soon to be over 900 bikes....that is hardly hand to mouth and not imminently in danger of going belly up. I bet spares for the Smart bike after the demise of Grace are very difficult to source.
The firms that you mention do not understand the market....Mercedes got it wrong,I suspect lost a fortune....BMW were badge engineering,not really serious about the product....KTM is a separate business to the motorbikes.
It is possible to take a German e-bike product and sell it in the UK,like say Kalkhoff but most UK customers don't want to pay more than £1000....to achieve that price level you cannot have the overheads of the bigger bike suppliers so you are the customer of the likes of Woosh,Kudos,Batribike,Freego etc.
KudosDave

 

[Crockers]

Thanks Dave for the insight. As I said I didn't want to offend but I was trying to show how all this bickering comes over to the lay person.
As for MB, BMW et all I was talking again about perception v reality.

 

[JuicyBike]

As an end user.....all I can think when reading this is ........Is the market so small that traders / manufacturers fight over every single piece if business?? If so then wtf is going on in this market place. If they are that desperate are they practically living from hand to mouth?? If so what's the odds they will go belly up soon and therefore I might be better off only looking at ebikes from large manufacturers. To mind that does make - perhaps- smartebiker not so daft as he's made himself sound. He has the backing of Mercedes...KTM are a large motorbike firm from Austria...BMW do ebikes...then you have the household (to the man in the street) name of Raleigh and all their sub brands.
All the rest - to the layman are not really known and need to prove themselves in the market place.
One way to do that is stop the anarchic posts. Two is to offer transferable warranties.

Sorry if this isn't what you guys want to hear but you are giving out the impression to me you are cottage industries working in sheds at the bottom of the garden.

This isn't meant to be antagonistic just to let you know how you're all coming over.

Thanks Crockers, that's very helpful.
We are a small company, and quite proud of what we've achieved over the last seven years. We only have one person from the team (moi) checking these forums and responding to relevant posts, and I proudly admit to having a passion for electric bikes.
So, in terms of what you mention, I'm in a rock and a hard place really - occasionally needing to vent on a subject that moves me, but not prepared to do so under the guise of anyone else's name.
I'll try to restrain the passion and limit my postings, but will definitely continue to make it clear I'm a (Proud) Trader.

 

[JuicyBike]

So something is a cooking.....I must say I initially misread one post about poof posters. Then spotted the "s".

Well you're just Crackers!